Hey everyone...
I've never been one to respond to astrology but I do admit that some readings I've had seemed pretty "on" but I caught an article a while ago and then again today and wondered if this is something people who study astrology have accounted for and how it affects readings.
Here's an address from one of my science journals:

www.livescience.com/strangenews/your-astronomical-sign.html

Let me know what you all think.
Thanks!

Yes, I read that article a while ago.

It confirmed what I already thought about how much I have of the Cancerian when I am technically a Leo.

What about you, Bill? What did you think?

It said I was actually an Airies.

I still think of myself as Taurus though. I seem more like one than an Airies.

Besides. Im already very close to both of them.

April 23 is almost in the middle of those 2 signs

It says I fall under cancer. I do not relate to cancer at all. I am on the edge. My spouse is a leo but falls under cancer. It fits him much more though. I do not follow astrology. My mother did though so I heard about it alot growing up. I will be honest that my sign fits me. I read an article last week a friend sent me. It was about the birth sign and children. It hit my children squared on the head.

Well....it's hard for me to say because I'm a Taurus and by this updated chart, I'm STILL a Taurus...so I can't say I have any barometer to form an opinion either way.
Astrology has gone back to the beginnings of astronomy...in fact, ancient astronomers were also the astrologers of their time. Over years, the two have parted ways but I feel like...maybe there could be something to it? I don't really know.
I have a difficult time believing that the alignment of planets and stars could influence the person you are or your daily behavior but it's something that resonates with a lot of people for some reason. Could it be power of suggestion? Could it be selective hearing? Maybe we select exactly how to read our charts and fit it into our lives appropriately, sometimes uncannily.
I really have no idea though.
I have one friend who is such a Scorpio it's kind of obnoxious. She has the Scorpio tattooed on herself several times, she stings like one (love her to death tho), she acts like one in every single way but by this chart, she's not a Scorpio!! That kinda cracks me up a little (cuz I have a slightly evil sense of humor) but it also brings up a strong question for me. She studies astrology very carefully but could her behavior and in fact her whole personality be based on the suggestions made by her charts and horoscopes?
I kinda don't want to even tell her about this...she'd probably get angry...it's almost better to leave sleeping scorpions alone! lol
My friend aside, I feel like...well...astrology doesn't really resonate with me. I think there's too much left to the power of suggestion. Too many variables that could apply to anyone really. I'm also not sure that all personalities can be lumped into twelve signs of the zodiac...of course, there are tons of possibilities within the individual zodiac symbols that impact the individual's personality, granting differences down to the minute of their birth, but I just don't feel like it's that cleanly packaged and marketable.
Maybe it is...I'm astrologically challenged. lol
It's definitely something I'd like to research a little more.

I think that removing Ophiuchus or whatever it's called from the zodiac for the sake of evenly dividing the signs 12 ways was a big mistake. Anyway very clearly on the chart the sun was in Gemini even though I am suppose to be a Cancer, although I have qualities of both in my opinion. I never really researched the other signs so I don't know much about them.

A counter argument to astrology is what about people who are born at the same time as each other? They could be born on opposite ends of the world or twins. In both cases they develop unique personalities and have unique experiences. How would astrology explain that?

FREE WILL

Our choices in life effect our experiences which mold our personality.

HAHAHAHA

I'm still a Taurus too! (When is your bday Bill? Mine is May 18) Cooooool... I'm more Taurus than anyone I know XD

I'm also a Snake in the Chinese Zodiac, and they have pretty much the same qualities, which I find amusing.

That was an interesting read though.

An interesting note is that the Mayans totally took the wobble into account. I am secretly so jealous that I wasn't born a Mayan; they had so much knowledge! Then stupid conquistadors came an ruined that. It only took the rest of us humans like hundreds of years to figure out how to re-invent rubber. Sigh.

OH and to add to that, Astrology also takes into account where you were born, just an extra part added to the free will. That's why when you do birth charts, the detailed ones ask for where you were born as well. And twins are'nt born at exactly the same time either <()> hehe

Plus, astrology is on the more general characteristics side; like yes, I am incredibly stubborn and I dislike change, except that I love moving. But that comes from the part that I love to organize and moving is the epitome of organizing....

...well yeah but how does that relate to astrology?


I guess that makes sense.
How does place of birth play into astrology?

The placement of the stars in the sky is different depending where you are on Earth. The sky that you see at night in PA is not the same sky that I see in UT, even if we are looking at it at exaclty the same moment. It's especially different for those in OZ, since they are in the Southern Hemisphere.

The only thing that would make someone have the exact same birthchart would be if they were born in the same room in a hospital at exactly the same time. Which, is kinda few and far between, I would think.

Yeah but if it happened even once, wouldn't those people lead different lives with different personalities?

Well I dunno. I think we would have to ask?

I'm sure they would be different, but there would probably be a lot of things that were the same about them. I mean, even genetically speaking. Two people, born into the same environment, same water, air, similar foods, etc, would affect how they grow. Same chemicals in the water may affect the way their brain works, so wouldn't they respond to simliar situations in a similar way?

So how is to say that two people born under the same planetary influences (minute changes in atompshere, gravity, etc) wouldn't have very similar personalities, given that their brains are subjected to the same influences.

But then it gets into good old Nature vs Nurture. I dunno, I guess I lean a little bit towards nature.



WOW

way for me to go waaay off on a tangent. Genetics + Astrology= totatlly not the same thing

What do you think about it Kai?

Oh I was just reading this and was thinking of Nature versus Nurture. I think astrology is all to do with personality traits and timelines, Im not sure if it actually predicts for an individual rather it suggests when would be a good time to do certain stuff etc. (I'm not sure about this though).

The twins studies give evidence in favour of nature, and you couldnt really get a lot closer in time and place of birth than twins.

I wonder what happens when twins are born under two different signs.

(Sorry to but in).

Ha oh no you are totally welcome to butt in

Yeah, I don't think it's set in stone, I mean there will always be people that fall outside their signs, but still. It's pretty good at being a general predictor.. (?) of personalities and stuff

Huh yeah, like when twins are born under two conflicting signs... what happens then!? OoooOOOOoooohhh

O_o

It must be documented somewhere.

Too bad I'm at work! aahahaha

google it! See if you can find anything. I will too. In between emails and stuff

wow encyclopedia of medical astrology is reeeealllly cool. as far as i can tell. i'll post more when im free

haha I found that one too, still searching......

I hope Lickdafoot comes back to the forum soon.

huh well i found this:

"So why do biological twins often differ so much? Firstly, the timing between the births can make a crucial difference. Even if the twins were born ten minutes apart the Ascendant could have changed zodiac signs, so that outwardly the twins will appear completely different. For instance, one twin may have a Virgo Ascendant and appear quite reserved and a bit of a perfectionist, whilst the other twin with a Libra Ascendant will be outgoing and love parties! The Moon may also have changed signs so that the twins will have different emotional temperaments. A twin with Moon in Pisces will be emotionally sensitive and easily hurt with a tendency to hide in the background, whereas the twin with Moon in Aries will be feisty, quick tempered and oblivious to how their tendency to ‘tell it like it is’ can sometimes upset others! Also, the angles between the planets in the chart of one twin may be closer, or further away, than that of the other twin, and this will impact on how strongly they influence the child’s personality.

But some twins are born so close together that the differences cannot be due to changes of Ascendant, Moon sign or angles. In fact the horoscopes may be virtually identical and yet the twins will still seem different from each other – why? What I have found is that twins often seem to take on, and play out, different parts of the horoscope. One twin may ‘take on’ the manner of the Ascendant, whereas the other twin will take on the manner of the Moon sign. Suppose you had twins who were born with Pisces Ascendant, Scorpio Sun and Capricorn Moon. What I have found so fascinating is that invariably one twin will appear a mix of Pisces and Scorpio, intense, brooding but also mystic and other-worldly. Yet the other twin will seem a mix of Capricorn and Scorpio, intense, brooding but also deeply ambitious and responsible. It’s as if they are playing out different characters within the same play. Perhaps when they argue with each other they are really arguing with a part of themselves! "
(Ruth Orvis )

I dont't think i can post the link to the site. So yeahs.

Oh well done. I got side-tracked reading about twins in different school years, born in different years, twins with different fathers, born in different countries etc, then I tried the quiz Victoria posted lol (if you're still at work I wouldnt try it yet).

That seems to more or less cover it though.

I suppose it would be research into non-identical twins (as they dont have identical dna) which would be useful for research into astrology.

I remember watching a documentary about sets of twins separated at birth by adoption, some of them in different countries who had similar lives and personalities, married similar partners, had similar careers, got married around the same age etc.

Similar personalities, jobs (because of shared talents) and types of partners could possibly be explained by genetics, however marrying around the same time etc could be linked to astrology or at least destiny.

Twins with different fathers!?!?!?! That is weeiiiirrrdddd but....... I can see how it would work....

O_o still.
That must be way weird. "Yeah, we were born five mins apart but we have different daddies. Don't ask."


Then I dunno how I feel about "destiny." I guess I don't like the feeling that comes from that word; for some reason I like Life Path better. Probably because you can walk off the path if you want to, but you don't really have any choice when it comes to Destiny. huh

So yeah back to astrology, I guess you would have to do research on fraternal twins like you said earlier. It would show more about the astrological similarities since they aren't made out of the exact same stuff.

I think that twin studies give evidence in favor of nurture. If one identical twin has a disorder there is only a chance that the other twin will get it. Since the chance is not 100% that suggests there are factors other then genetics.


Well that's really great, that answers all of my questions, good job! It makes perfect sense and I can totally see it. Some twins just seem to compliment each other, like they complete a set.


I really can't see how that would work....the circumstances would have to be tooooooooo perfect...

Kai, I was referring more to the similar life paths that the separated twins had taken, but I know what you mean - that's very interesting.

I'll find a link some time (not tonight) and post it.

awww yay! I'm glad I found something that explained it.

If there was any really definitive answer about Nature vs Nurture it wouldn't be an object of discusssion! (tee hee) That's what makes it so fun. Some studies show in favor or nature while others show in favor of nurture!


man
I love debating and thinking about this kind of stuff!

Homosexuality can be nature
until people are ready to accept that there is nothing wrong with that "choice"

I'm reeeally not sure where that part came from but I agree! You can choose to accept it or fight it your whole life, but you don't actually make the "choice" to be that way.. you just are. For bi people you can choose which you want to be I suppose. Or you can play for both teams!


Seed actually had a really awesome article a long time ago about how there are hundreds of vertebrate animals that exhibit gay behavior. Which is a really good come back for peeps who think it's unnnatural. But now we are getting all political and stuff, soooo?

Yeah sorry just an outburst.
New Years....Drinking....you know....

\

Agreed on the Mayans thing...I actually got to climb some of the pyramids a few years back before they started really restricting it.
I'm may 16th...and year of the OX!!! I'm like the most bullish of the bullish!! hahaa

Just thought of something...
There was a girl I grew up with...she was born at the same time, date, even in the same hospital.
I think she was like 12 minutes older than I am...
I really wonder what she's up to. I just googled her, couldn't find her.
Her little brother shared (coincidentally enough) the EXACT SAME CIRCUMSTANCES with my little sister!!!
What are the ODDS!!!
They ended up dating (as far as kids date) but he drowned several years ago.
I would be really interested to see where my friend's life-path has lead her.
Wonder if we're similar at all....hmm

Hi Bill, in my search on twins and astrology I came across something they are calling "time twins", when people are born around the same time near to each other.

Would be interesting if you managed to contact her.

I knew two girls who were born on the same day in the same hospital, infact one of the mothers copied the others name! They ended up at school together (how I know them). They werent that alike on the surface and never mixed that much with each other. Deep down Im unsure as to whether they are alike. Both have quite stubborn/determined natures. Both of them have a great sense of humuour though. They are Taurus. I have a Taurus daughter now and she has the same sense of humour and mischevious twinkle in her eye that both of these old friends have!

Lickdafoot did my chart for me a while back, and having a chart done is so much more personal than he stuff you read in the papers. She hadnt generalized anything at all, as you might get with mass-produced ones and everyone I showed it too, thought it was spot-on.

QUESTION: Does the extra sign change my chart completely or Add to it???

To me I think there are a lot of things working in sequence together that shape our "true essence" when we are born, I think the stars can give us an indication as to our personalities and abilities.

I think up-bringing can alter a person quite a lot, but usually the person will eventually reach their full potential anyhow, whatever that may be.

Actually if I'm honest I'm thinking I lean more towards astrology that genetcis to explain personality etc.
I think while a person is still "growing" and learning about life, it is harder to see who they truly are, as you can once they are more mature.

Hope you manage to find your friend Bill, if you do, keep us posted.

Back to your original post. Is anyone an Ophiuchus???

Oh cool Bill! Happy almost same birthday as me in a couple months! hahaha

Speaking of Mayans/2012 and I was (eavesdropping) and someone was talking about how the sun is switching magnetic polarities right now and how it was in the news? not sure. I will look it up in a min

I am pretty sure that 2012 was when the Mayans predicted the SUN would enter a new phase, and not neccessarily that the earth was coming to an end. I dunno though!

In regards to finding your friend, do you have a facebook/mypace? sometimes what comes up on there won't show on google. and practically everyone has one of those. Worth a shot?



So I was just thinking, you know how even though clones have EXACTLY the same DNA, that it doesn't really have an affect on personality? How much of that do you think comes into play with Astrology vs growth conditions (hormones in the womb, etc)?

Oh. The suns polarities just switched and the first new sun spot showed up. And this is putting the sun and the earths poles in linem causing more potential damage to our atmosphere! O_O

"Jimmy Raeder, a physicist with the University of New Hampshire, predicted a more intense solar cycle. That's because the Earth's and the sun's magnetic fields will be in sync at the cycle's peak, expected in 2012, that will cause an influx of solar particles, Raeder said."

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28269124/



Edit: just closing worm holes!

Hi MzPlurfection

I think Billbryan and Botyfitiger have both posted on this type of thing recently... and theres one today started by Michael

I love your question about clones and personalities. Very thought provoking..have you got a link to that info too? I'm busy at the mo, but would love to continue this discussion later..

mmm no I can't find a link. I can only find it in my left over school work from my Medical Anatomy class.. which doesn't really help you unless I scanned it in haha.

I mean you can find the things about how the personality won't be the same but I'm having a hard time finding the part where they can look different. From what I remember there's a group of cows that were all cloned from the same one, but some have different spotting patterns and one is like brown while the rest are black and white. There's some from kittens too. Like the donor was a calico and then there's 3 kittens, one orange one gray and then one that's calico like the donor.

That's really interesting MzPlurfection.

Almost like a 'built-in' individuality insurance. lol