Hello!!

Some had mentioned ascension to me when I asked what has been occuring in my life. I've never really thought about ascension before, but the more I look at it, the more I wonder. I don't want to sound all high and mighty or anything or assume that I'm going through this process..

But I was wondering how long it may take? Does it occur in steps? Or does it all happen at one time? So could depression come first? And then a love for life come later? Just curious.


Blessings and love,
Beth

What do you believe ascension is? Where have you come from, and where are you going? What is it you expect you will become?

This is an aspect that makes me grimace quite a bit when I read about the term ascend. There are a few things associated from it based on my experiences over the past 10 years online and for a greater part of 5 years in personal instruction.

For one thing, an operational definition would be apt to clearly determine a concept and many contend that ascending is



In a contemporary aspect, the idea of ascension has been clearly established in several forms of media - from Neo of the Matrix, Goku of Dragon Ball Z, and even to a larger extent Clark Kent of Superman (for example), all of these aspects contribute to the point of what we deem "ascension". In a modern aspect, ascending is being above our peers and displaying abilities above that of what we deem normal in a modern societal setting and it is this reason that we wish to ascend. Studying the phenomenon leads an individual to the study of religious; whose primary intention is to align oneself to God and is expressed both physically and mentally.
Regardless of religious belief system or major figure (the bodhisattva, jesus christ, mohammed), each of these men (and women under a daoist/hindi circle) had abilities that were easily displayed in order to prove their above human abilities. This is considered the foundational knowledge that each of us has with regards to religion. Above this is a pervading belief that on a massive scale, only the individuals annointed by God have the ability ot ascend and teach individuals how to ascend. Given the properties of a person that has ascended (the abilities to perform miracle/impact reality on a major scale, speak to god, having a divine aura, aging at a slower rate and several other qualities), this is something that anyone would want.

At least, that is what I thought ten years ago.

Zealously, like everyone, my primary means of investigating this was to google search and to my surprise I found several things concerning ascending. Dismissing methodology or etymology, I practiced the "method" every single day. The method involved circulation of energy, constriction of muscles, a myriad of things that I see often on different outlets on a google search out of sheer boredom or to see how things have changed. And then, one day, someone said, you have ascended! Congratulations!

Immediately, the first thought in my mind was that I felt not different at all. Performing these measures, I cannot run faster, I am not connect to God, and every single notion that has been listed in every single orthodox religion (eastern or western), I lacked these abilities.

Under a scientific paradigm, when this occurs, and it is noted that there is an issue, the phenomenon could not be explained, perhaps it is not the observation, but merely the method to which the ends did not justify the experiment. In this case, the method did not ascribe the abilities I expected.

While unfortunate as this is, it is a very common occurrence and has been recorded for centuries. Two situations come to my mind specifically. One of which occurs over a millenium ago. In China, there was a man that has trained for a greater part of his life. he began to announce that he was a mere six months from ascending (to heaven). During the process, he began to stop eating food except rice and water. When the day finally came, there was a large crowd around his home. The man had shrunk in size and looked very fraile and withered. One of the villagers began to help him to the tree in order to ascend. As he announced he would fly to heaven, the audience watched with gasps and expectation. But to their dismay, the man did not fly. He sunk to the ground getting a concussion. Upset, the crowd began to throw rocks at the man. The man died after the onslaught of the crowd.

There is another story that is also very common in my belief system; especially since the exponential rise of eastern tradition. A zealous man became an apprentice to a "master" and paid large sums of money to become this apprentice. He spent ten years of his life to performing what he considered the foundation, refining of energy, and preparing for the glorious moment of "taiji". And when it was finally completely, he, like me, felt no different.

Is this a sense of dramatic irony provoked by God? Its difficult to surmise that answer, but you are given three cases to which three different people (of the far past, immediate past, and recent past) have tried and essentially failed. This is not meant to discourage, but to note that the path of ascension is quite a dangerous one. It is dangerous because you place trust and faith on a master who may not be a master, but lead you on a path of delusion (something to which has been explored in several eastern faiths). Idealistic individuals want to discover a secret elixir to life, but 99% of the training methods of ascending are not. In many ways, we are disillusioned by what entails ascending and the process thereof.

This isn't a process to which an individual practices 15 minutes a day and feels like they have done something. What a drastic lie someone feeds that an exercise for a few moments will lead to ascending! Consider ascending much like high school. There are some things we take to, but by in large, we aren't prepared for the brave new world to which this represents. There is no such thing as a short exercise for ascending - because ascending means giving up a lot of things in life (social life, sex, money, possessions, and sometimes even school if the price isn't right) in order to attain a tiny piece of what is deemed "Godly".

Look back to the stories of the past - from the story of atlas and hercules, to even goku in dragon ball z, these figures were not given ascension. They worked every single day, for hours upon hours to train, giving up everything they had in order to continue their puruit.

Are you ready to give that up? Society? Love? Money? And only live (if lucky) for school and long arduous hours of training?

I can say this for my experiences with it - being on the path of illusion and on the path of way - it isn't easy. If you want a lesser path, take it. This is a path where you constantly question what the point is for doing all of this - why we have to go through this. Sometimes it is faith. I often ask myself why I am on this path. And it is expected.

I have given up society, I live in a world that is difficult and forever on pursuit of healing, mastery of self and often training 4-6 hours daily. But at the end of the day, I have a smile on my face. Because this is my path and it is difficult. But it is my path.

Understand this. Ascending, the process, the requirements, is painful. To be blessed to find a teacher of true esotericism and is adept in English is almost an impossible journey. But it does exist. The path is difficult. But answer this question:

Would you be willing to be tied in full lotus posture for 12 hours?

That will determine if this is your path.

There are other paths in the world. It would be small minded to assume that there are only a handful of noble paths to ascending. But I can surely say that the path itself, no matter what, takes pain and sacrifice.

You are both pygmalion and your galatea is mastery. Is this your path?

I might ask you the same question, Noir. You speak very strongly of iron motivation and self sacrifice. What is your motivation for wishing to eschew the world of men for the unknown? What do you expect to gain from the sacrifice of your life in pursuit of god? What is your source of personal dissatisfaction towards mortality? How do you intend to break the grip of your mind? How do you intend to break the will of the world? History is full of individuals who have spent all their lives in such a pursuit and to no end, but that is not news to you.

Have you found such a master who has surpassed those limitations? If you have, what makes you think your beloved teacher is what they claim? We both know the true indicator of this advancement can only be undeniable, inexplicable power - there is no way to communicate the mysteries to those who have not plumbed those depths themselves, the journey being the capacity. And understanding of the relationship between the source world and this one, its progeny, would surely grant such a power. Have you seen this demonstrated? Do they crack the world with a will like a hammer? Do they think beyond themselves like an encroaching dream, with all the mindlessness and the emptiness and the purity? Do you? Where do you come from, and where are you going?

the world of man will always be there. but discovering "way" is once in a lifetime. There will always be an opportunity to be in society - because I myself have not left society. The unique aspect is clear - we are of men! There's no way to truly separate yourself from that kinship you have with man. My life has sometimes circumstances that are often times beyond my control. The way sometimes forces you to decide on what is important in my life for the greater sum of life. And if that means giving away some possessions to understand the ties that bind the world and reality, then that is a sacrifice I will easily make twice. At one point, I didn't but it is easily a conclusion I can make.

I can also say that the world of men is also one that is unknown to me as well. Perhaps there will always be secrets of men, but the idea that I may be one of the few that have been trained by incredible men that are much akin to biblical in both grace, virtue, and knowledge is something I would easily give up.

I have asked myself what the point is, just as of 3 days ago, and of course then I take it easy. But I realize, I dislike my decision and continue to try. Perhaps this path is much like a mother, a father, a wife. When you are away from it, you grow disheartened by your choice and continue to try to make up time. This is not gong fu! But it is the primary things that happens across the path of "way". For me, it is I must return. I have no issues with this order.



Mastery of self. Several beliefs espouse this, but it is not complete. Information is improperly applied based on sheer antiquity of the belief, the watering down of the belief, a myriad of items that can be assumed for hours and hours in a short anthropological diatribe. My primary goal is mastery of self and healing of body. When these two elements are in one, the power of miracles do occur.



I don't have any. I have not become "taiji" and even if (heaven forbid for that I will have God's grace) I do, I will still be mortal in flesh. The dissatisfaction I hold in fact is none. It is fruitless to be dissatisfied when there is so much that needs to be done.



This is a question I hope to have a little bit more graceful of an answer next month as it has gripped my mind for a bit. Perhaps it is the realization (truly) that the world I see doesn't exist but are mere representational models of a program. Perhaps hologram, perhaps energy, but I have come to realize what I see is never what I get. I contend to wonder how do I break away from such a construct. Perhaps the answer is that through walking the path, when one begins to change, you can change the world. We've seen it done before - the infamous water to wine, lead to gold (and yes alchemy is true), and to even a greater extent, shigong chang piercing a chopstick in a table are all facets that coalesce with two conclusions. The world is a hologram, but the hologram can be surpassed. I won't try to implore the detail, because even I myself have truly only begun this path and because I am duty bound, I cannot share method. I can share result, experiences, and even some of my masters (and other masters) experiences that have already been written. In such a way, that is all I can share unless I am given grace to do further.

But the point is, walking way breaks grip of mind because my goal is mastery of self (which is largely exclusive to mind).



Good question. The great thing about way is that individuals are often tested. In many ways, the noble paths continue to live on the rules of trials and tests. If you are at this level, you will be able to perform this feat. So, often times, it is best to enter some skepticism in this area and demand to a master to prove themselves. Most true masters follow the belief of the buddha and often display their abilities free of charge.

Mastery in itself is a unique aspect. I know in my life one main aspect that determines master is proving it. But often times, it is also the information disseminated. I recall the first time I heard my master speak. It was as if he had an angelic aura (and of course this is evident he's taiji!). Perhaps it is his words, mastery of language and his experience that made me say I want to try. Perhaps it was destiny. But I feel this is my path because he's proven it. And his example is a great inspiration.



Do you call driving a chopstick through metal proof? I can't say that is cracking the world, but this instance does coalesce with other tests done on this noble path. But yes, its been demonstrated countless times. Its like I guess the culmination of old and new, past and present philosophies coming into one. That is one tiny aspect of taiji he has. And I feel honored to receive zhen fa.



Its like I suppose being in reality, being of people, but also not. It is very difficult to articulate this aspect and I don't think words can describe a master on this level.



I won't lie. I am a poor black man from Chicago IL with two bachelors degrees trying to receive my Clinical PsyD. As far as where I am going and what I expect, I have no expectations. I just have an end and I will keep working on that end. If one way doesn't happen, I continue looking for other ways until I have satisfied all of my means. And even then, I will still continue to learn and train of way. My mind has been trained scientifically even if my family has stressed philosophy and esotericism even at an early age. Perhaps that too is motivation. It is difficult to say.

But I can truly say this. The world does work on equivalent exchange. To attain, you must give something in order to receive. This aspect will always be important to me...

Is this really true? A wise man once said that all true philosophers seek death above all else, and if you are as dedicated as you seem, it would be unlikely you are an exception. To understand the importance of the soul, and to sacrifice the body the perception and the mind to its graces, is to surrender one's humanity to death, so that they might know what they truly are. You have said much on the subject of sacrifice, all of it true. Were you to be one of the individuals satisfied by the waking world I would not expect you to make such a decision. I strongly suspect there is an element of profound dissatisfaction in all holy men, and it is this that bears down on them, invisible yet inescapable, bending them to their calling.

Is this pain in you? Do you feel shackled by your body and blinded by your mind?

Nope =)
Granted I do dislike some elements (for instance when food only has one flavor, like salty, sweet and there isn't a party in my mouth) and that makes the food feel quite artificial sure that's more painful than life itself. I like to cook and I love variety in my eating. When food is horrible, then it makes me feel sad =(

But consider this
yes to attain you have to give up something. Tell me something. When you learn something new and you really like it, don't you give time (more time to that activity) than anything else? For example, I entered college in 2003 and I loved calculus. I would spend hours on hours just practicing calculus; sometimes with my friends but often times alone. Was calculus necessary for my curriculum? Absolutely not! But I liked it and I was good at it because I devoted time to it.

This is similar in many ways - because this is like college to me all over again. Full of fees, financial movement, learning classes, philosophies, it is the collegiate experience. When in college you have to devote time. No parties, not much socialization, just down home studying because it is your profession you are working for; your future. Sure you get good grades, and you get bad grades. The way is a lot like that (of course there is no fat tuition reimbursement of monetary value and financial aid for a poor chicago youth is still hell).

So when you think of it like that, you can realize that sure you have to give stuff up all the time. I've done it all my life. But thing is life will always be there. My goal for this, just like college is to see how far the rabbit hole goes

Will this make me viable? What does this differ to other philosophies? Is this the true way?

Can't you rearrange this in terms of college? When you consider it that way, it is quite similar in many regards. The sacrifices are merely to see how far the rabbit hole goes. It has nothing to do with hatred of mortality because in order to gain immortality, you also have to be aware of your own mortality. Just because one is immortal doesn't mean they cannot die.

Immortality is no goal I would set for myself.

I wish you well in your task.

Arma I think you took his point a bit literally (or were you making some sort of joke that I don't comprehend?)

And Noir, speaking of math...

hmm.. do you mean physical immortality or the soul as well?
do you wish to die and cease to exist?
If so what is the point of your life at all? to live until you are no longer alive...

My comment regarding the classical definition of immortality was an anecdote illustrating that I would not want to remain here indefinitely. I do not think that was what, exactly, Noir meant when he used the term himself, although we share a personality trait in that we both feel that the soul takes precedence over the world at hand, and control of one over the other should fall to the higher order. Because of that it is a shame when good souls that have much to contribute and much to learn are cast from this place before it is prudent they leave. So it goes!

As for what I wish for, malick, the answer is neither. I am an amalgam of both worlds, and I draw motivation from two distinct sources. What I wish for, ultimately, is the awareness and the ability to discern and take from this life what is useful to me when this life is gone, and discard the elements of it which do not serve me well. I wish very much for sizable portions of what makes me what I am here to cease to be, and because of that, dramatic change will likely ensure I am someone else when I die. To that effect, yes, I wish to cease to be.

Wow, I'm the exact opposite. I want to only discard the negative, unspiritual part of myself that are hard to control because of my physical body. I think the physical body has built-in restraints, like some emotions (anger, hatred, envy, sex-drive etc) so that we can learn what those emotions are and experience them. When we die i think those things fall away because they are part of the physical experience.
My personality, my "who i am" I most certainly want to preserve after the disappearance of the body. if not, then what is the point of learning and growing at all? If you die and are no longer you whats the point?

I will say i am torn between the idea of whether or not we take our memories over, so in a way i suppose I wont be me as much as I would like. the reason I think this is because some people would be hard pressed to enjoy the afterlife when they are forced to leave their loved ones behind and earthly matters unfinished.
Myself I am one of those "strange" people who could easily leave those things behind (in time). I realize that all things of this physical world die, and are meant and built to die. That's part of the experience. If i died tomorrow or today my family would be said but given time they would move on and so would I.
The reason I am torn is because, for people like myself who except the mortality of man, taking your memories over wouldn't restrain spiritual growth. For other people it would.

a lot of things concerning the view of immortality and my comments concerning this phenomenon.

Let me explain this concept to the best of my ability. The problem is, since I haven't fully grasped "taiji", my knowledge on this is based on third sources (from literature and other masters that have performed the feat). Before this, I want to also give emphasis on a certain point of difference - the way immortality is viewed in a contemporary sense is not the view that the masters of the noble paths see it.

We use the model of immortality to represent that if an individual is living in flesh in a large age, this is immortality. And while, there are some masters reaching in their 600s (one assistant is 450 in an austere society that doesn't look a day over 50), the predominant model doesn't match in many ways because it dismisses the reincarnation component that exists in several religious systems (in fact all religious systems except islam to my knowledge include at least some esoteric form of reincarnation). That being said, a small summarized model of immortality is simply the ending of the reincarnation cycle.

But taking this a step further, the predominant belief espoused by many new age practitioners that a spirit is always immortal, but enter the cycle of reincarnation to live once again as a point of rebuttal to the escape of reincarnation - also in many ways dismissing the aspect that the spirit and soul will live on; memories being locked. To this point, I stand with a bit of an en passe because there is some truth to it - but the main difference between the philosophies attached is that the individual conscious (present I) is forever living. There is no "true" necessity to enter heaven to return to this life. The time here; if you die from other natural causes (sickness for example, cancer from improper training) is over, but your consciousness, mind, and other corpoeral aspects that determine you are a higher level spirit lives on.

I would have to say the first time I had the opportunity to understand this mode of thought was in 2003 after I finished reading the magus of java for the first time. The author, Kosta, opened a small community to try and communicate with other students of Mopai tradition as well as give some minor bits of clarification on principles (philosophy, never training) of what he was taught by his master. It was here where I was given a tiny dose of the subtle difference between the western interpetation of reincarnation and the eastern (older form, not in a contemporary modern eastern aspect) aspect of reincarnation. I use the term eastern as a means to unify both china, tibet, and even indian values, but this is a bit of a misnomer as well as an anthropological no no. But for the course of discussion, I think it is alright. At that point taking some opportunityt o continue reading from a variety of sources (vajaryana, i ching, and other tao te ching translations and even some transliterations), I realized the gap slowly pulling away from what I thought immortality to represent.

Seeing my master in the year I was introduced to him achieve the level of taiji was a great eye opening experience. It also reinforced a variety of concepts concerning immortality. There is a bit of irony here - that despite the status achieved, you still get sick. You still have mortality to worry about. The shangrila that many of us consider that there is some invincibility concerning this concept is promoted by several media as well as misinterpretation of how immortality is viewed from a societal and anthropological point of view.

So when I commented on immortality, it wasn't in jest. But it was a non secular line of reasoning as well

If you have ascended to a point where your body has "immortality" (living to a very long age) you can still get sick?

To help with ColorMySoul's questions, don't think of "Ascension" like a destination. Rather it is a process and a journey that may never end. This might be disheartening but think of it like it gets better, and better, and better, and better, and your mind will tell you it cannot possibly get any better, but then it does. That is the path you will want to walk on.
Does it occur in steps? The journey is deeply personal to you, but in my experience things have been like waves, like something suddenly "breaks through" if you can gather what I mean.
If bad feelings come up, honor them and let them go as best you can, the feelings are coming up so that they can leave. I view "depression" as resisting bad feelings, and being apathetic. It would be much better to cry or feel agony then resist it and be depressed. That is just my opinion.
As far as love for life goes, I would imagine you already look for beauty whenever you remember to. I would bet you are doing and great job and should give yourself a pat on the back.

And how much of your personality has been sculpted by those feelings you expect to fall away? Our negative emotions define our personalities on this world as much as any other attribute. Do you think that if they are intended to be taken from us by death, that the structure and form they have given your personality is intended to remain? You have in you, as part of your identity here, metaphysical structures which grant you the capacity to feel those emotions you have personally decided were unworthy of existence beyond mortality. But these structures are not independent. They cannot simply be removed while preserving the original personality. They are part of an intricate machine, and if they were to go, you would not resemble you as you have come to know yourself.

So, who are you, really?

Alright well.. My question kind of got answered..

I don't know really understand what you were talking about, Noir, with giving up everything into ascension. That it was a painful process.. Did I misunderstand you?

Ascension to me is.. Well, kind of hard to explain. I guess in a way, I feel that if someone goes through asension, they are better equipped to deal with life in the best way possible, but in no way better than someone else. I feel as though ascension is a Heaven On Earth type of thing. Living happily and contently and feeling at one with everything around.

Ascension is complete happiness in everything. As I have posted many times before, I suddenly feel so at peace and in love with the life I'm living. Even when something bad happens in my life, somehow I'm still happy and positive and see the bright side of it all. I am able to look past the darkness and see the light. Every day, I've noticed, I step outside and **** in a deep breath of air, just to take everything in. I raise my face towards the sky, feeling the wind on my face, and I feel like I'm in heaven. Every day. Even when it rains. I've never felt so euphoric in my entire life. That is my idea of ascension. Being one with the world, with nature, with life. Knowing that you are exactly where you are supposed to be. Know you are living the way you were meant to.

Happiness. And nothing more.

However, through my reading on ascension, I noticed that there are a lot of different feelings that go on. I noticed hightened senses, depression, feelings of being connected to a higher power, mood swings, and many other things.

But the point of my discussion was that many of the things seem to contradict themselves. Like the depression and feeling connected to something higher. People who are depressed typically don't feel contected to anything or anyone. So I was curious if it happened in stages, because when I was suffering from depression, it just went away with a sudden "Ah-ha" moment that is hard to explain. Just, all at once, in such a rush, I wasn't depressed anymore. My mind was clear and open and accepting and loving, all in one suddent moment. I was depressed.. then I wasn't.

So the point was, does it start out with depression and end with happiness? And if it does, then can it be argued that everyone suffering from depression in on the verge of ascension, but they're fighting it, resisting the change, unwilling to see the light at the end of the tunnel?


I appreciate those who tried to answer my questions. Any most input would be wonderful.
Blessings and love,
Beth

*scratching head*
wow this one was a doozy...

I don't know what people mean by ascension like personal ascension but I'll take a crack at it from the bits and pieces that I understand and what ya'll have written.

When I think of ascension i think to rise up. But I don't think ascension is like besting others, or being more spiritual or whatever than another. I think It is when One person and their spirit 'rise up.' The have reached their personal highest point. It may be like what you said ColorMySoul finally breaking past a point that you felt held you down. But your ascension would be very different than mine for sure and without a doubt.

I feel that it may have something to do with karma. When you finally have learned your lessons and embraced your your light AND shadow self. You are complete and you move forward and that forward is ascension. Like do you ever hear of an "Ascended Master" being reincarnated? If I heard that I wouldn't believe it. There is no point for them to live in this vessel to relive life and to relearn lessons they've already learned.

Do I believe that inflicting pain on the body will assist with that ascension? I don't know. I personally don't believe so. I don't believe that God would want us to hurt ourselves, push ourselves yes but physical harm to prove our faith i think is wholly unnecessary. But I don't know, we live in a Very Different time than Jesus so I'm not sure it's necessary. However, God and the Universe will give us obstacles from which to learn from to get past and from which we can use as step to bring us closer to our ascension. And when we pass on, on that day we will decided "Have I done enough to move forward - to ascend?' I think that is the moment when you know you've reached 'ascension' as "they" put it. Every time you "rise to the occasion" you come one step closer. I believe that you have come one step closer ColorMySoul, just don't forget what you learned

In a way I kind of look at the level that we can reach in our personal ascension as the topography of Heaven. I don't believe it's flat i believe it has valleys and hills and trees When we ascend we create its beauty. But does that make a daisy less significant than a oak because it cannot whether a fierce storm? I don't think so. We each have our purpose and our 'highest good' some higher than others but without the little ones it would be flat and I don't believe in that. I believe that when people "do Right" to themselves and not try to be someone else, it'll keep them on their path to ascension.

and that's my two cents i hope that makes sense