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Guest Angel C

Spiritual Growth

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Guest Angel C

I would love to discuss spiritual growth. Things like - what we all believe it is? What are our goals? What we hope to gain through our attempts to grow personally and spiritually? Is it all about being a better person, and if so ,why?

 

I'm not giving any opinions of my own at this point, partly because they are not fully formed (and may never be), but am hoping as there are so many people posting on here right now who are interested in spirituality that we can all share and learn from one another.

 

I know that personally I often realize my own curent beliefs when considering those of another.

 

 

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I would love to discuss spiritual growth. Things like - what we all believe it is? What are our goals? What we hope to gain through our attempts to grow personally and spiritually? Is it all about being a better person, and if so ,why?

 

I'm not giving any opinions of my own at this point, partly because they are not fully formed (and may never be), but am hoping as there are so many people posting on here right now who are interested in spirituality that we can all share and learn from one another.

 

I know that personally I often realize my own curent beliefs when considering those of another.

 

 

How did I miss this!?

 

Just stepping out for a bit and then I will think and probably post. :angel:

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Guest Angel C

Thank you, I look forward to reading your thoughts (not literally lol) in the morning :angel2:

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I believe in a very spiritual manner that there must have been some reason that no one replied.

 

I agree with Victoria, how did I miss this?! During that time when you posted this (May 9th) I was asking similar questions! Maybe at that time was not the time for answers?

 

Anyway, though at that time my answer may have been different, at this time I believe that it is about unity. Or at least that is what I am about at this time.

 

Edit: Time time time time time time time hehehe :)

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I would love to discuss spiritual growth. Things like - what we all believe it is? What are our goals? What we hope to gain through our attempts to grow personally and spiritually? Is it all about being a better person, and if so ,why?

 

I'm not giving any opinions of my own at this point, partly because they are not fully formed (and may never be), but am hoping as there are so many people posting on here right now who are interested in spirituality that we can all share and learn from one another.

 

I know that personally I often realize my own curent beliefs when considering those of another.

 

Hmmmm... spiritual growth?

 

Not growing as a spirit but rather growing in ways that enhance understanding, behaviour and intention. Ummm... I believe it is separate from psychic abilities. I was psychic long before I was (consciously) spiritual.

 

My goals? To achieve a true manifestation of 'we are all ONE'. To teach those who want to learn how to change their lives for the better. To leave a delicate footprint on the earth. To keep getting better and better at what I do.

 

What do I gain? A better life. Knowledge. Awareness. More happiness, more ease, health, prosperity, love...

 

For me it is about becoming a better person. Why? Because I want to honour who I really am. :)

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Guest Angel C

Thank you for your replies.

 

You make a good point Victoria about us not needing to grow as a spirit. (I think that was what you meant). I think it is more about learning to live spiritually on earth. I think we have a lot of distractions and temptations and its easy to get caught up in drama. I think it really is a balancing act.

 

I have been reading a book about Yoga - The Seven Spiritual Laws of Yoga. Have been practicing yoga regularly for around two years now. I never realized that would be where I would find so many answers that fit with my beliefs that I have already formed or am currently learning.

 

Anyhow I think what you said is right. To me, right now spiritual growth is learning to balance body mind and spirit on earth. Infact Kai, unity of mind, body, spirit and soul.

 

I was psychic before I was spiritually aware too, sounds silly really, read peoples jewellery for years (was a party peice of mine - showing off under the infuence :blush: ). Even connecting at times with their loved ones who had passed over and wasnt even really that aware of my own spirit! Hard to believe now!

 

Anyway thank you both, not only for your replies but also for your support on my own journey so far. I will post more later. xx

 

Please anyone join in :) I'd love to hear peoples input.

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I find the notion of the static, unchanging spirit to be a strange one. I assume you consider the spirit in possession of and possessed by an individual to be perfect and without the need for growth or change. This necessitates that every spirit, perfect and complete in all ways, is not here to change and can not change in its completeness. Are my assumptions correct?

 

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I reckon it's about learning about your own spirit and the spirits of other people and applying what you have learnt to make the world a better place for those you share it with.

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I find the notion of the static, unchanging spirit to be a strange one. I assume you consider the spirit in possession of and possessed by an individual to be perfect and without the need for growth or change. This necessitates that every spirit, perfect and complete in all ways, is not here to change and can not change in its completeness. Are my assumptions correct?

 

No! no... lol no! I was merely defining my comment... I meant I am not referring to a 'spirit'! Your assumptions are way off the mark. LOL

 

I don't think in terms of spirit.

 

The way I see it I am soul and I am human. It's the human part of me that desires learning and adjustment. It's the human in me that seeks the spiritual growth.

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No! no... lol no! I was merely defining my comment... I meant I am not referring to a 'spirit'! Your assumptions are way off the mark. LOL

 

I don't think in terms of spirit.

 

The way I see it I am soul and I am human. It's the human part of me that desires learning and adjustment. It's the human in me that seeks the spiritual growth.

 

Does the soul seek its own growth through the human experience, then?

 

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Does the soul seek its own growth through the human experience, then?

 

 

Because I believe that soul is the god within me I don't see soul as having to grow in the sense of learn lessons -- I mean god knows everything, right! But soul enjoys experiencing so I guess you could see that as growth. Having said that I am reminded that soul loves to guide and teach. What we call our higher self is, I think, our soul, our link to god, leading us on our spiritual growth.

 

So I am saying that for me spiritual growth is a process which enables me, the human, to become more like god. :)

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So, the goal of this pursuit is oneness with your higher self, that link to god. Do you believe that your higher self and your link to god was present and functional before you were born into this life?

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So, the goal of this pursuit is oneness with your higher self, that link to god.

 

 

Not really. I like my independence, but I want to be more like my higher self.

 

 

Do you believe that your higher self and your link to god was present and functional before you were born into this life?

 

 

What do you mean?

 

It sounds like an interesting idea to muse upon, on this the first day of my holidays when I can shut the file in my mind called 'School Work'! . :)

 

 

EDIT: Remember I believe we ARE ONE ALREADY - IMMUTABLY AND ETERNALLY.

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Not really. I like my independence, but I want to be more like my higher self.

Oh so in a way your higher self has "attached" itself to you so that you can learn to be like it?

 

Because I got caught up in the idea of "oneness" I never thought about "separate but equal," but what you are saying is that we can be separate but godly?

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Oh so in a way your higher self has "attached" itself to you so that you can learn to be like it?

 

My soul, my higher self, has always been there, I think -- I guess it was that little Jiminy Cricket conscience that steered me in a better direction (or tried to), but my awareness of it opened up in my early 30s.

 

Because I got caught up in the idea of "oneness" I never thought about "separate but equal," but what you are saying is that we can be separate but godly?

Yes, I think that is what it's all about: being unique, being separate and exploring that individuality but retaining the connection to what and who we really are. :angel:

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Guest Angel C

I just want to get down my own thoughts this morning on this before I forget them! I believe our higher self is always there, that our "higher self" (soul?) is either with god or at least the part of us that is closest to god. I know the Higher Self is near the Ascended Masters/Angels and can receive guidance easily from a higher source - somtimes called the "higher counsel". We can receive this guidance through connecting spiritually with our Higher Self.

 

I think our spirit is our true personality, it is our authentic self. It is what connects us to our Higher Self. I think that when we become spiritually aware and start living from spirit, being congruent, being open and honest, being authentic, being true to ourselves, we automatically start to grow spiritually too.

 

I think we can become spiritually aware through different means, for me it was through psychic ability, but I think this can come from learning through some forms of religion and through spiritual practices (such as yoga for example) too. Sometimes a person may become spiritually aware after the loss of a loved one - (maybe this is a stage of grief that isnt usually mentioned.) Serving others by working in helping professions for example is another path to spiritual growth. Personal development I think also automatically leads us to spiritual development, whether we are conscious of that or not.

 

Through living through spirit on this earth and being aware of and trying not to get involved in the drama and distractions - we (or our spirit) becomes closer to our higher selves.

 

The closer we become to our higher selves in each incarnation, the less lives we will have to live after this one and the nearer we become to enlightenment on earth.

 

Soul is what connects us all. Spirit is unique (and I must thank Victoria who first shared her insight with me that started me thinking this way).

 

Through living through spirit it brings us closer to our higher selves, which in effect unites our souls.

 

Having said that, I think in this time things are a bit different. I think the task for us living on earth today is to work towards Unity on earth. I think we need to spiritually evolve as a race and Unity is one key to this.

 

These are just my thoughts for today. I know they need refining, I just wanted to get them down.

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The soul, the higher self - I have been for the longest time been using these terms interchangeably. There is no difference to me. I am my link to god. We are all in agreement, then, that the soul, the higher self, is something that was in existence before we were born on this world, and it will be what remains when we, as humans, die.

 

I do not consider it an unreasonable conclusion to think that this puts it at the highest of our priorities. The very term "higher" suggests this - that our needs as human beings are subordinate to the needs of ourselves as souls. After all - the body will be gone, and our lives over all too soon, but the journey of our true form goes on.

 

But I do not think that true form is unchanging. Those of us who have journeyed into those hazy realms and carry memories of them can all agree that they are vivid and full of life, although not as the world knows it. Things of wonder and terror are there, in many shapes, sizes, polarities and degrees of vastness and power. Are we really so different from those entities? They are wanderers through the great mystery, like ourselves. The way I see it, the only thing that separates us from them are our bodies. We, as humans, show many of the same attributes - some of us are dim, some of us are bright, some of us are gifted, some of us are not. An individual possessed of and possessed by a bright and powerful soul can come into a broken, mentally deficient body and do great things. We shape the vessels we are in, and we are shaped by them in turn. Yes! We as souls are shaped, I think, by this confining mortality. We carry memories from prior incarnations - they shape us, the good and the bad - they shape our elemental disposition, the energies native to us, and change how we, our higher selves, can view and manipulate the cosmos.

 

The earth, I think, and worlds like her, serve as cradles for the growth of not life but spiritual intelligence. Human bodies are molds, traps, that catch and shape the divine spark. We take the image of our human life when we are gone from it - a pattern, for better or worse, that imprints itself upon our spiritual being, which is a pattern itself.

 

I do not think all souls are equal. I cannot justify such a statement when the soul is the thing that imbues us with our drive to grow, and discover, and learn, and makes great people out of bad lives. And the mirror image to that statement is that great lives do not necessarily result in a great person who does great things for themselves and for their fellow man. I see many individuals who go through life living for life's sake, and not their own. They, as souls, are slaves to their bodies. They take completely the image of their humanity, whether good or bad, and have very little ability to sit up one day and decide "this trait isn't right for me, it harms me, I need to reshape my humanity to fit me". All of us have seen these people - and we have seen the same failing in ourselves! I consider myself powerful, relatively. My spiritual form is, comparatively well defined, with needs it clearly states and demands I know must be met for my own well being not as a human but as a soul. And there are others who are even stronger, who are so bright that their humanity doesn't even distract them from what they truly are. What is it that decides the brightness, the power, of a soul? I wish I knew. I can see the form and capabilities of others, and wonder at why they do and don't, but I don't think I can judge that. All I know is that there is brightness in my blood that demands expression and growth - spiritual growth.

 

We can grow here, or we can wither. Each of us have our own spiritual needs, and while we all stem from the same source, and to that place we will return when the true masters rediscover the way, it is very clear to me that different energies motivate us and way we make our journey. Our higher selves can be very different from the psychology of our human bodies. Human bodies have their own needs which have very little to do with our needs as souls, and yet while we are in them, we see through the eyes of the human body, and we feel all of the things it does - things that are often not right for us, and that might even overpower us. This, I think, leads to a great deal of the self-confliction we feel as humans. What separates the great from the weak is the ability to identify what is truly right through this confusion - to remember and heed the voice of the soul when presented by temptation in its many confusing and vague forms.

 

If it is spiritual growth that you wish for yourself; ask yourself what you have in your humanity that empowers you, and what you have in it that weakens you. Feed the strength and strangle the weakness, that the pattern you let your humanity impose on -you-, the higher self, the soul, the thing incarnate in the human experience, is to your benefit, and not to your detriment. I do not think for a moment all of the things the human condition has inherent in it are right or good for me. But it has imprinted on me things I think I have forgotten, and I would not have come here if I did not expect there were things I needed to learn from taking on a human life as my own.

 

It felt good to write all of that. The relationship between the body and the soul is something that I have been struggling with, and I think that struggle for understanding has only begun.

 

 

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It felt good to write all of that. The relationship between the body and the soul is something that I have been struggling with, and I think that struggle for understanding has only begun.

 

 

Thanks for sharing your interesting perceptions, Armadodecadron. It is always intriguing and thought-provoking exploring the ideas of others. :)

 

These are just my thoughts for today. I know they need refining, I just wanted to get them down.

 

Thank you Angel C. I always enjoy reading your thoughts. :angel:

 

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Guest Angel C
The soul, the higher self - I have been for the longest time been using these terms interchangeably. There is no difference to me. I am my link to god. We are all in agreement, then, that the soul, the higher self, is something that was in existence before we were born on this world, and it will be what remains when we, as humans, die.

 

I do not consider it an unreasonable conclusion to think that this puts it at the highest of our priorities. The very term "higher" suggests this - that our needs as human beings are subordinate to the needs of ourselves as souls. After all - the body will be gone, and our lives over all too soon, but the journey of our true form goes on.

Thank you Armado, I agree with most of what you have written. I am unsure about the rest, so would like to discuss this further, (edit: as I would like to learn). Not that we may ever find the answer.

 

So do you think there is a hierachy of Higher selves? What I mean is; do you think there are some higher selves that are closer to god than others? As we grow spiritually on earth, does our higher self move closer to god? Or is it (edit: it = part of us) always with god and as we grow, we are just becoming more aware and more in tune with our higher self/soul.

 

I dont think that the afterlife has a hierachy. I think hierachy is a man made concept. I think our souls are already with god. I dont think our soul needs to grow.

 

I think the purpose of our lives (and it may take a few) is to become one with our souls.

 

 

Oh, as an afterthought I thought you might like this one. I was in that state between sleep and awake and I often hear things in this state. I have began to think of this as a "hyper-aware" state for me. Anyhow I heard, from a male voice (I am female). "It is our minds that kill us in the end". I thought afterwards I'm sure Armado off the forum has said something similar to that in the past. Just thought I'd share that with you. :)

 

Edit, just thought I'd add that before I heard this, I had been pondering on some level about the relationship between clarity of mind and purity of spirit, and whether either was possible permanently.

 

Double Edit: Just had another thought - perhaps a Level of clarity of mind and purity of spirit unites us with our soul.

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Guest Angel C
Because I believe that soul is the god within me I don't see soul as having to grow in the sense of learn lessons -- I mean god knows everything, right!

 

I can really see the truth in that, Victoria.

 

The "layers of life" from the book "The seven spiritual laws of yoga", Deepak Chopra, M.D, David Simon, M.D." describes this, although the wording is different, I feel it is the same.

 

The Layers of life.

 

"Shankara called these various layers koshas, meaning "coverings" and he catergorized them into three primary divisions...."

 

Environment, Body, Energy = Physical Body (The Field Of Molecules) OR BODY

 

Mind, Intellect, Ego = Subtle Body (The Mind Field) OR MIND

 

Personal, Colletive, Universal = Causal Body (The Field of Pure Potentiality) OR SOUL

 

 

 

Could the last line be interpreted (to use the words we have been using here) as "spirit, soul, god"? And does it mean that all that is required for growth, is awareness of this?

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Guest Angel C
I reckon it's about learning about your own spirit and the spirits of other people and applying what you have learnt to make the world a better place for those you share it with.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Fooze. I wonder if once we become spiritually aware, it is a natural progression to want to make the world a better place.

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My view on this is pretty much what others have already said- I think it's to achieve unity. Such as, I improve in this way to help others and improve their lives in that way...Kind of like if you change one person's life, and then they remember it and go on to change their own life and then those around them, it creates a domino effect. And the purpose of being a good person, is to create this domino effect to keep the ball rolling so to speak so we can gain more from our life and interactions with others. If we were negative and never helped anyone...we'd sort of be stuck in one spot for a very long time, no one would feel the urge to change anything. So as we help ourselves evolve spiritually, we help everyone around us as well :)

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There is something I do not understand, and it troubles me greatly. I apologize if this seems like an unfounded attack on the dominant belief system here, but I assure you my motivations are to come to understand a dire inconsistency and a perhaps inch closer to a great mystery.

 

On one hand, you say, we came from god, and that god is within us, and in us is perfection. Layered around it is humanity, various vessels and structures by which we are to experience life. If you were to strip away the humanity, and all of those structures, then this perfection would be all that is left. This is not to be contested - it is a logical requirement if we are to assume that we are perfect beings and with an absolute god within us.

 

And then you say, we are perfect beings having a human experience. There is nothing wrong with this statement. It fits nicely with the idea that we, spiritually, cannot grow, nor diminish, as we are spiritually absolute. But this renders the goal of total unity redundant. You left total unity and light the moment you took on the mantle of a singular entity, to experience the human condition. Under that belief system, all of us did such a thing. We left a perfect state as perfect selves unified in the perfect god. To do what? Experience pain, darkness, envy, rage, jealousy, condemnation and fear?

 

What is the point of leaving perfection just to make it your goal the moment you leave? If it is to be one with god that you seek, you seek death. Why are you alive now? To guide others to the same destination, as the Bodhisattva - like Christ, like Buddha? Under the assumption that we are all spiritually perfect, this noble task is redundant. Everyone was born, and everyone will die, and everyone will inevitably return from whence they came.

 

So, do you seek perfection? You cannot seek what you already have. You must be imperfect to seek it. Or are you perfect and seeking imperfection by way of a human experience?

 

Which is it? You cannot have both. That is a fatal incongruity.

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Guest Angel C
There is something I do not understand, and it troubles me greatly. I apologize if this seems like an unfounded attack on the dominant belief system here, but I assure you my motivations are to come to understand a dire inconsistency and a perhaps inch closer to a great mystery.

 

On one hand, you say, we came from god, and that god is within us, and in us is perfection. Layered around it is humanity, various vessels and structures by which we are to experience life. If you were to strip away the humanity, and all of those structures, then this perfection would be all that is left. This is not to be contested - it is a logical requirement if we are to assume that we are perfect beings and with an absolute god within us.

 

And then you say, we are perfect beings having a human experience. There is nothing wrong with this statement. It fits nicely with the idea that we, spiritually, cannot grow, nor diminish, as we are spiritually absolute. But this renders the goal of total unity redundant. You left total unity and light the moment you took on the mantle of a singular entity, to experience the human condition. Under that belief system, all of us did such a thing. We left a perfect state as perfect selves unified in the perfect god. To do what? Experience pain, darkness, envy, rage, jealousy, condemnation and fear?

 

What is the point of leaving perfection just to make it your goal the moment you leave? If it is to be one with god that you seek, you seek death. Why are you alive now? To guide others to the same destination, as the Bodhisattva - like Christ, like Buddha? Under the assumption that we are all spiritually perfect, this noble task is redundant. Everyone was born, and everyone will die, and everyone will inevitably return from whence they came.

 

So, do you seek perfection? You cannot seek what you already have. You must be imperfect to seek it. Or are you perfect and seeking imperfection by way of a human experience?

 

Which is it? You cannot have both. That is a fatal incongruity.

 

Don't apologize because it is when I am challenged that the boundaries of my thinking are pushed.

 

I am starting to form a belief. This is what it is.

 

There is a part of us that is already perfect and is with god - This is the Universal part of our Soul. This part of us cannot be affected by our mind.

 

It is the human journey that makes us imperfect (this can also include hereditary things like a pre-disposition to mental illness for instance).

 

Our strive for perfection can infact damage our spirit, as can our uprbringing, our life experiences, trauma etc.

 

Once we realize that we are already perfect and with god, this awareness is all that is necessary and we grow personally and spiritually as a result. We grow personally and spiritually as humans as a result and this has an effect on those around us (as Lavendar said) - so that is the purpose of our human spiritual growth. However the part of us that is with God does not need this growth, it is already how it should be.

 

Every soul is accepted in the afterlife, everyone is accepted by god.

 

So why experience life then? I don't know. I'm not sure we are meant to know. If we are perfect before we are born, why experience it at all? Maybe there is no purpose to it - that is hard for our minds to conceive. Maybe it is just a naturally occurring cycle.

 

So, do you seek perfection? You cannot seek what you already have. You must be imperfect to seek it. Or are you perfect and seeking imperfection by way of a human experience?

 

I think I have been seeking spiritual growth as a human being, but this growth has led me to realize that we are already "perfect", that we dont need to seek it. In other words, I will never be perfect as a person, but am already perfect as a Soul.

 

You cannot seek what you already have.
- Never a truer word! Thank you.

 

 

 

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