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Guest Angel C

Spiritual Growth

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... It can only be the soul that makes us what we are...

 

The soul makes us what we are, but as humans we are living as what we are not, so that we can know what we are.

 

You know what? Have you read the book "Conversations With God" yet? If you haven't, do -- it clarified for me so many of the things I've tried to explain here (even though I still don't explain well -- little ones interfere with my writing skills). If you have, and still see things as you do, then it's just a matter of perspective, somehow, that no amount of discussion is likely to change.

 

I don't mean to sound belligerent here. I'm just rushing to get the point down before my 5yo distracts me from it. Again. :)

 

Also, to be honest, you seem so unhappy and part of me wants to fix that NOW. One of my weaknesses... I can't stand for people to be unhappy when I see the world as such a wonderful place. But, there are times when people need to be unhappy, and I'm trying to learn when to help and when to just be there. Haven't got it down yet. ;)

 

~ Zan

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Guest Angel C
The soul makes us what we are, but as humans we are living as what we are not, so that we can know what we are.

 

 

Fantastic answer GypsyMama!

 

Amardo, you know yourself the human mind and body are not perfect, neither is our environment. I personaly think that our soul is. Victoria is talking about helping human beings, not about helping souls. Also I doubt she just means helping people spiritually. Life is about sharing love and kindness.

 

 

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The soul makes us what we are, but as humans we are living as what we are not, so that we can know what we are.

That requires that the soul did not know what it was before the human experience, and it is required to take it on in order to understand itself. For the soul to do such a thing, it is required that it can learn. For a thing to learn, it is required that it possesses the capacity to lack information. To add to and be taken from requires mutability, or the capacity for change, which requires finity. If the soul was -perfect- it would not -require- the mantle of humanity to understand itself better.

 

 

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That requires that the soul did not know what it was before the human experience, and it is required to take it on in order to understand itself. For the soul to do such a thing, it is required that it can learn. For a thing to learn, it is required that it possesses the capacity to lack information. To add to and be taken from requires mutability, or the capacity for change, which requires finity. If the soul was -perfect- it would not -require- the mantle of humanity to understand itself better.

 

You are right. However, I think the problem -- from my perspective, anyway, as I know you don't have a problem -- with your argument as a whole is that learning is different from experiencing.

 

Have you never turned your face to the sunshine just to experience the warmth of it on your face -- and not thought one bit about anything you *know* about the sun, not tried to learn a thing??

 

To me, this is what life -- the human experience, anyway -- is all about. What we learn can be interesting, but is silly in the big picture. After this life, none of it matters, but the experiences we had.

 

I could go on and on, this is something that's important to me. But I've got to feed my family, so I'll stop there, as I think that's the most important point I could have made.

 

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That requires that the soul did not know what it was before the human experience, and it is required to take it on in order to understand itself. For the soul to do such a thing, it is required that it can learn. For a thing to learn, it is required that it possesses the capacity to lack information. To add to and be taken from requires mutability, or the capacity for change, which requires finity. If the soul was -perfect- it would not -require- the mantle of humanity to understand itself better.

 

See, the way I perceive it is like this: being god the soul already understands itself. This is what works best for me right now in my tapestry of the Universe.

 

The soul doesn't make a choice to come 'here' or anywhere for that matter, because being god, the creator, the ONE, all that is, the soul exists in everything because it is the divine within us. The soul doesn't decide to come here and see what being a human is like in order to learn harsh lessons. The soul has to come here because being god soul is everywhere. Soul is inherent.

 

The soul, being god, knows everything.

 

My belief is that it is not the soul that learns but the mind, the consciousness, the part of us that appears to separate us from that at-ONE-ment with god. The part that labels me homo sapien because that carries with it the ego.

:)

 

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Who are already perfect in every way, requiring nothing, and having everything to give. And by the necessity of that, should and indeed must be doing exactly what you are, being perfect souls like you.

 

I see it differently to you Armadodecadron. In my philosophy, it is the human part of us that is imperfect... soul is always perfect, sitting quietly within us all totally content to simply BE. All that soul has is there for us to receive, but we have to 'enable' soul in our lives. We have to open all our channels to receive. Millions of people do this every day. Some quietly, simply as a part of going about their daily lives; others with more 'commotion' who are in the spotlight and therefore more noticeable.

 

How do you cope with the notion that your benevolence is in an extreme minority, and that all the world over are individuals with none of your own drive?

 

Good question. Sometimes I say things like this: "What's wrong with people?" or "Oy vey!" Sometimes I even momentarily hate people... and then I accept and put my thoughts to more productive use. They are who they are right now. They are doing their best with the skills and knowledge available to them. It's not my preference that people do the things they do, but bemoaning, worrying or attributing their failings to the whole human race won't change them, nor will it add anything positive to the mix.

 

It can only be the soul that makes us what we are, Victoria. And it makes us what we are not. What does that mean when you use it to compare the strong and benevolent to the weak and cruel? Tell me how you explain the difference!

 

Yes, I agree, "the soul... makes us what we are". But our perception of what we are is where we diverge.

 

I don't know why people are the way they are. There are as many reasons for our behaviour as there are people. The weak and cruel have the same potential as the strong and benevolent.

 

I do not understand why you do not see as I do. It seems so inevitable a conclusion.

 

:rolleyes:

 

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Arma, have you had the experience where you are in a dream, or astral projecting, or something, and in that experience something triggers you to once again remember how things really are? For example I had a dream where I met with a deceased friend, and almost immediately after I saw him I was like "oh yeah!" I remembered what is really going on, that I am not a human but something greater, and the greater friendship that we shared. But of course it doesn't take long after I have awoken to forget how I felt in the dream, and forget what is really going on, and return to the ways of this world. It is almost like we are suppose to forget, for a reason that I, well, forget.

 

 

 

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Guest Angel C
But our perception of what we are is where we diverge.

 

I just wanted to quote this, in case it gets lost in the rest. I think it is a simple point, yet it explains why views are differing, as this was:-

 

...but everything to GIVE.

 

I posted more in the consciousness thread, it seems we are having the same discussion on 3 different threads now.

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