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littlecomet

Why can't you speak frequently with the recently passed over?

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Based on what I frequently read, I get a lot of negative responses on talking to the recently deceased.

 

Numerous people tell me that the recently passed over have to go through training to get to where they are accepted as spirit guides. (As I understand it, a type of school that they go to.) To me, this makes no sense. Why do the recently passed over have to go into 'training' after they move on? Since in most cases there's been numerous times before they passed over, wouldn't they regain the knowledge once they enter their spirit body? What is the meaning of re-learning what they already know?

 

Another issue I have with it, is that near death experiences don't match up with this train of thought. Many people who experience near death occurrences say they slowly regain their past knowledge. Almost like blankets lifting, so they slowly realize why they can't do this or that in the afterlife, and they grow to understand things more. (So, it's a different view of learning. A different method, which allows them to still be around the ones they are watching over.) This makes sense to me- as we grow more and more unattached to our physical bodies and realize how many times we've gone through this pattern, we start to understand why we can't do this or that in our spiritual form, therefore making us 'relearn' the whole process of protecting those in our afterlife until we decide to move on again.

 

Why do so many mediums and psychics tell you not to talk to the recently deceased? To me, it's rude. Spirits go somewhere after death, we just don't know where. People can assume where they go, and they have their own interpretations. By saying to only have short visits with the recently deceased basically implies, tell them to get it all out in one go and only to return sparingly. I could never tell someone to do that. I don't see how it would help them move on in the afterlife, especially if they were sent to convey messages to you from higher life forms. They could easily be guides that are new, and they could have messages- and we're told to just ignore them, because many view the recently deceased as individuals who shouldn't be around.

 

And even if they haven't let go all of their faults and human aspects- they're only human. They can have faults, they can miss their families, etc. It doesn't make sense why this would make them any less of a valuable source of guidance. Over time, they do change, and I think if they benefit you, then you should allow them to help you as much as you're comfortable with. But why do people continue to say they're horrible sources of guidance? Why do some mediums insist we only receive messages from known spirit guides, like for example, Native American spirit guides and the angels?

 

Anyways, what are your thoughts on this? What have you been told is true and what do you believe is true? Do you think there's a problem with one way of thinking- and if so, what is that problem and why does it bother you? Mostly I want to know how you feel on this subject, so please no heated discussions, this is all up to what you think and have been exposed to! I'm very interested on hearing the different viewpoints on this.

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Another thing I think about frequently is this: What if your spirit guide IS someone who recently passed over, and they just went back a few lifetimes in another form to one that would be, say, less familiar to you? So they hide who they really are. I've heard it's a hard thing to get your spirit guides name, so I wouldn't be surprised that some guides are worried they wouldn't be accepted if they were asked for their true name or relation to the ones they are guiding. I think the recently passed are given a bad reputation because of so many mediums saying that their guidance isn't helpful.

 

I also thought that this might be a choice for many spirit guides to look like an older form of themselves, if not to keep you from asking about their most current life, because it still is too new for them to let go. That way they don't have you prying about their previous life, because you would be interested in learning all you can about them. So, that way, they can give you more advice without going in depth about themselves.

 

And at what point does the recently passed become no longer recently? A half of a year? A year? Five years?

 

I have so many questions! :laugh2:

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Guest Dot
Numerous people tell me that the recently passed over have to go through training to get to where they are accepted as spirit guides. (As I understand it, a type of school that they go to.) To me, this makes no sense. Why do the recently passed over have to go into 'training' after they move on? Since in most cases there's been numerous times before they passed over, wouldn't they regain the knowledge once they enter their spirit body? What is the meaning of re-learning what they already know?

Do they really relearn it? Don't they just remember it once they've shed their human skin? In that case then no, they wouldn't relearn it because they already know it... And I think the recently deceased only become spirit guides if they want to become spirit guides.

 

Those who have near death experiences jump out of their human bodies so I assume it is easier to 'remember' what you need to.

 

Why do so many mediums and psychics tell you not to talk to the recently deceased?

Really?! I've never heard them say this before, but then again, I haven't talked to too many of those "official" psychics. From what I've read of near death experiences is that whoever is near death does not feel loss for their bodies and for the most part they are told it is not their time and sent right back. Many people have claimed to not want to go back into their body - maybe because being just spirit is so damn awesome. :lol: But from what I've heard... Well, I don't see why talking to somebody recently deceased should be any different than talking to somebody alive. I'm serious! If they still hold their human counterpart then they will still be, y'know, human-y - they will still have aspects of their personality and their advice and guidance might just be the guidance of that person - not necessarily "the All".

 

As to why people say they are horrible sources of guidance, maybe this is because they're partly disconnected from this world or maybe the person in question might just give very bad advice! :lol: I can picture them being in a type of limbo though, and maybe only saying one thing or a particular thing over and over as a message to convey to somebody. Not sure.

 

They can have faults, they can miss their families, etc.

Do they miss their families? Like I said before, if they're dead then they have lost their body, and they have probably got some clarity in the situation at hand (their death) - unless there is a message to pass on I don't see why they'd hang around after the funeral. I hear spirits visit their own funeral to give a sense of finality, well, maybe not of their death because they are dead, but just to see how things play out surrounding their demise... sorta thing.

 

What if your spirit guide IS someone who recently passed over, and they just went back a few lifetimes in another form to one that would be, say, less familiar to you? So they hide who they really are.

It's possible, but what if they are? What does it matter? They're -dead-, this may be their spirit but it is not the same person you think of. They might do this to give you a more comfortable feeling, of a spirit you remember, but even so, the energy would intermingle with that of the human's.

 

I also thought that this might be a choice for many spirit guides to look like an older form of themselves, if not to keep you from asking about their most current life, because it still is too new for them to let go.

Older form...? Why not a newer one? Not the one you knew... or maybe they'd take on a fake identity - one they haven't actually been on Earth or wherever. I think spirits let go of their human lives remarkably easy. It seems odd for a spirit not to let go of their past if they're in the spirit world and have taken on their other lives because they remember what they're there for and what they've got to do.

 

I've heard it's a hard thing to get your spirit guides name,

Really? I got a heap of information from my spirit guides all at once one evening. Name, what they look like (saw a picture in my mind) and their personalities. I guess if the person trying to figure out the name is thinking too much that it causes a block then yeah, it would be difficult to get a name.

 

That way they don't have you prying about their previous life, because you would be interested in learning all you can about them. So, that way, they can give you more advice without going in depth about themselves.

The point of spirit guides are to offer guidance and help, not as spirits for you to learn more about them, well, this is what I think. :lol: Or maybe it's just my spirit guides or my own blocks to learning but my spirit guides are more concerned with my well being than me learning more about them, or their past lives. As far as I'm concerned, past lives mean jack all unless they have some kind of significance in this incarnation or life. Or they need be let go of. I asked my spirit guides to tell me more about them and they denied - though maybe this was part of my mind saying "it's not important" because my brain didn't pick up their message. Actually, their message was "that is not important," and one of my spirit guides (the communicator) is laughing right now. Heh, guess I was right! well, he's laughing and shaking his head so who knows. Thing is, I don't care much about my spirit guides last life or if I have met them before because they're here -now- to help me -now-, in -this- life so the others don't matter.

 

This, however, is my personal opinion. And to be quite frank, why listen to their past lives when it'll just be like hearing about any old person's past lives. Sure, it's -interesting- but it's not -necessary-. Unless of course, as I said before, it applies to this life then maybe so... Hahaha, anyway, I'm done. I hope you've found some points of interest in my post.

 

And at what point does the recently passed become no longer recently? A half of a year? A year? Five years?

When they have left Earth and rejoined the spirit world? This depends on the individual, but I bet I'd be out of there not as long as five years. As to the question in a more -human- sense. They are no longer recently deceased when an individual has stopped grieving and stopped thinking about them, when they are able to resume their lives normally. The word "recently" implies that somebody has not yet gotten over them, so... is that... does that make sense? :P

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That was a wonderful response Dot, thank you! That's how I feel on this- all this mumble jumble I get about ignoring the recently deceased makes no sense. It seems every medium I go to contact in person tells me the same thing- the recently deceased cannot be guides.

 

 

* Edited by Author.

 

Thank you very much again for your post!

 

So I take it your guide connects to you while you post too? My guide interjects sometimes, but not a lot...

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Guest Dot
My guide also points out his life is no longer the subject of conversation. I tend to get some things out of him about it, but otherwise, not a word. He still has his sense of humor and whatnot. But he doesn't like when I focus on his life. I think of it as we're helping each other, because as long as he can help me, we both exchange positive energy.

Heh, yeah! Haha, my spirit guides have their sense of humor about them. I remember the evening after the Reiki Master course I did I was just sitting on my bed and I connected with my spirit guides and we had a biggg talk, and Daniel, I had to keep telling him to shut up! All in good humor of course. He likes talking and he just kept going on and on and me and the other two guides were like "Daniel! Shh!", I was laughing out loud it was so funny - and I can't really say I was laughing to myself, can I? :P I was saying, "You know it's great to hear from you and all but there's a point where it becomes too much,' but I love him and we love each other. And I totally hear you on the positive energy stuff - when we're communicating we're both getting the good side of the deal. :)

 

So I take it your guide connects to you while you post too? My guide interjects sometimes, but not a lot...

Hmm, I wouldn't say my guides connect with me, more like I'm more in tune with them. I tune myself to them. Sometimes I move my awareness to my spirit guides, to see what they're up to and just in that moment of posting, well, they were having fun with what I was saying. :P

 

I'm glad you thought my post was useful. :D

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I've had so many times where my guide and I have issues with keeping quiet too! I get too curious about what he wants to talk about, then I prod, and then he says something humorous, I laugh, and unfortunately a lot of time people are within hearing distance! And yeah, it doesn't look good when you laugh to yourself. I never thought about it before but some people just laugh to themselves when they think of something funny, I never thought it looked odd.

 

So you have a bit of clairaudience then? I did have clairaudience, but working on turning it off really impaired my communication with the other side entirely. I can't say I regret it because I had negative feedback clashing with my guide's interactions but at least it's pretty much dealt with now- my guide suggested I turned it off.

 

I found lately I'm not tuning in with my guide. But in dreams, I'm 100% tuned in and I can also make out their voice completely. When I'm awake, I find it difficult to find their voice, I get more of an impulse connection (they feel, I feel sort of thing going on.) So if he felt irked by what I was writing I definitely would feel it.

 

I found it incredibly useful! I'm so glad there's others who support my view on it. Almost all published spiritualists' works I find they say recently deceased should not be spoken with because they're too attached to life. And I've found so many instances of 'school' that I get confused. I basically respond to it as, "Wasn't school a man-made concept? Why would spirits need to attend a school in the afterlife?" It clashes so much with so many beliefs that it threw me up in the air on the whole thing.

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Guest Dot
I never thought about it before but some people just laugh to themselves when they think of something funny, I never thought it looked odd.

I don't think it looks odd, but it's funny, y'know? Makes you wonder what they're laughing about. Though, I was in my bedroom, all alone, no-one could here me... bwahah.

 

So you have a bit of clairaudience then?
I have a bit of everything, really. :P Like when I'm communicating with my spirit guides I can hear their voices in my head, I get the information through my crown chakra, I can feel their presence with my solar plexus (or whatever, that's the centre for clairsentinence but I can just feel their presence like anyone else's - like a glow) and I see them in my mind's eye. So, mix match really - but the good kind. :)

 

I did have clairaudience, but working on turning it off really impaired my communication with the other side entirely. I can't say I regret it because I had negative feedback clashing with my guide's interactions but at least it's pretty much dealt with now- my guide suggested I turned it off.

Hm, that's interesting. What kind of negative feedback?

 

But in dreams, I'm 100% tuned in and I can also make out their voice completely.

This is interesting. I can't remember ever having a dream about my spirit guides, but perhaps this is because it's simple enough for me to communicate with them consciously and they wouldn't want me to get lazy. Not saying that being unconscious and getting information through dreams is lazy, it makes the feedback a lot... well, there's no extra stuff. And my spirit guides know I'm perfectly capable of communing with them through my conscious mind and they'd get indignant if I asked for a dream with them, they'd probably say that I should clear my mind and do it myself. They know I can do it. :P And yes, nodding their heads. :lol:

 

I basically respond to it as, "Wasn't school a man-made concept? Why would spirits need to attend a school in the afterlife?" It clashes so much with so many beliefs that it threw me up in the air on the whole thing.

I know! There are so many instances like this. It's like how other entities are based off the man blueprint, because they're made up of the same genetic make-up. They say hierarchy is a God-made thing and it is, however, humans have interpreted it wrong! This might be the case with the 'school', I think it's just a word to show it's a place of learning - but I think our human minds have muddled the interpretation. Our schools generally work with that hierarchy - that hierarchy that puts others on different levels, when this is not the case at all. It is all about being -at the same level- with different jobs. A bit like now men and women are equal, but it's a common idea that men are dominant or whatever - it's the different roles played - it's... male and female energies are different and one is not better than the other. Hope this makes sense. :)

 

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I think you've both basically hit the nail on the head, but I want to add my two cents anyway.

I can't really wrap my head around how there even could be rules in the afterlife. I mean if you just died and you contact friends on the physical world will the angel police come and beat you? I really think of the world of the "afterlife" as a rule-less place. A place of joy and freedom. I think that as soon as you die you cast off your earthly fears and heal in the warmth of knowingness. I think that you relatively instantly remember everything, because without earthly resistance you can handle that knowledge.

I think another issue with what whomever said about having to wait is that suggests that the afterlife has a time that parallels ours, and I really do not think that is the case, I think that in the afterlife it is timeless, and so the afterlife can access any time in this world. By that logic you should be able to channel a person who is living right now. People might call that talking to their "higher selves," just an idea.

 

I found lately I'm not tuning in with my guide. But in dreams, I'm 100% tuned in and I can also make out their voice completely. When I'm awake, I find it difficult to find their voice, I get more of an impulse connection (they feel, I feel sort of thing going on.) So if he felt irked by what I was writing I definitely would feel it.

Me too, I also receive better messages when I am asleep. Sometimes I will even randomly get tired, and go take a nap only to find a message waiting for me in the form of a vivid dream.

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Guest Angel C
By that logic you should be able to channel a person who is living right now. People might call that talking to their "higher selves," just an idea.

 

Are you saying that when we think we are speaking to our higher selves, we may actually be speaking to someone who is actually alive?

 

 

 

For me it was easier to speak to my mother when she had recently passed than it is now. It is the same for a friend who has lost her mother too.

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Are you saying that when we think we are speaking to our higher selves, we may actually be speaking to someone who is actually alive?

 

 

 

For me it was easier to speak to my mother when she had recently passed than it is now. It is the same for a friend who has lost her mother too.

Well no, what I mean is in "deceased" form a person is eternal, so that form exists while the person is alive too. That form likely has different opinions then the living person. But you can still talk to that form because that form is always trying to break through the living form.

So like with your mother, when she died she integrated with her greater self. But that greater self was always there, compassionately trying to break through. So talking to your living mother may have been difficult because of her earthly conditioning and resistance, but she always had that greater part of her trying to come out.

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Guest Angel C
Well no, what I mean is in "deceased" form a person is eternal, so that form exists while the person is alive too. That form likely has different opinions then the living person. But you can still talk to that form because that form is always trying to break through the living form.

So like with your mother, when she died she integrated with her greater self. But that greater self was always there, compassionately trying to break through. So talking to your living mother may have been difficult because of her earthly conditioning and resistance, but she always had that greater part of her trying to come out.

 

 

Oh, I think I know what you mean. I have a headache and havent read the full thread.

 

I tried an experiment a year or two ago with a friend, where we spoke to each others higher selves. We did get some good results.

 

 

Although what you are saying makes complete sense Kai, I'm a little unsure about this. I have heard that sometimes it takes a while for someone to pass over, perhaps if theyve had a sudden death. I think I'd wait a while to try to communicate, infact I wouldnt even do that, I'd wait for them to come to me. Talking to them is fine though, to say goodbye etc.

 

A friend of mine was told (by a very good medium), that because her parents have been gone over 20 years its hard to get in touch with them, that they are far away. She had no problem communicating with relatives that had passed more recently though, and gave her some accurate information.

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Why do so many mediums and psychics tell you not to talk to the recently deceased?

They tell you this because they cannot do it themselves, and rather than face their own inadequacies, they have invented a congenial system to explain away their failings. A system that has no bearing on what actually happens to the dead.

 

Asking a professional medium or psychic to communicate with any individual you could possibly have the prior knowledge of (or obtain), enough to refute their claims outright, is asking them to step well out of safe operating territory and risk being wrong in a way they can't rationalize. It is far more difficult to dispute what the long dead may or may not say or want. For this reason and this reason only do they avoid the subject nervously or with all the confidence of an individual accustomed to a lifetime of comfortable self-illusion.

 

On the other hand, if you encounter a professional willing to do this, you've either got someone who hasn't been in the business for long, or someone marvelously good at their calling. The real deal.

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Guest Dot

And the toe smushing begins! You have a point, Arma. :P

 

See, this is why we're awesome - because we can all realize (ALL OF US) what's the real deal and what's not. And if we find it, what to do. W000! WE RULE, PEOPLE! :lol: :P :D I am quite positive today, well, now, as you can see. Bwahah.

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A system that has no bearing on what actually happens to the dead.

 

What actually happens to the dead?

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That's a great point- I wonder with some of the people I encounter who say "don't speak to the recently deceased!" if its just because they can't affirm whether its really them or not and that would damage their credibility. Or the individuals who only can hook you up with a guide they pick, and they say all other guides you obtained prior to meeting with them should be ignored. That bothered me a lot too. It's like, if this guide has been guiding me for however long, why should I abandon their guidance because you said so?

 

Thanks for the comment Arma!

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They tell you this because they cannot do it themselves, and rather than face their own inadequacies, they have invented a congenial system to explain away their failings. A system that has no bearing on what actually happens to the dead.

 

Asking a professional medium or psychic to communicate with any individual you could possibly have the prior knowledge of (or obtain), enough to refute their claims outright, is asking them to step well out of safe operating territory and risk being wrong in a way they can't rationalize. It is far more difficult to dispute what the long dead may or may not say or want. For this reason and this reason only do they avoid the subject nervously or with all the confidence of an individual accustomed to a lifetime of comfortable self-illusion.

 

On the other hand, if you encounter a professional willing to do this, you've either got someone who hasn't been in the business for long, or someone marvelously good at their calling. The real deal.

 

 

Yep, yep and yep! :dance:

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What actually happens to the dead?

 

My game has been called! No matter what I answer to this one, it's going to raise some eyebrows, cause a few people to go "Hmmn... Ahh." and a few others to go "Oh, please."

 

I'm going to take the easy way out and say that I firmly believe that the process varies from person to person depending on what they were when they incarnated and how they led their lives. Keep in mind I am in a minority on how I view the soul; I consider it subject to conception, change, growth and destruction. I consider all four of these things something that can occur within the confines and within the span of one human life.

 

I don't dare get more specific with that yet.

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Guest Dot
I consider all four of these things something that can occur within the confines and within the span of one human life.

Would the destruction of a human life cause the destruction of the soul? The spirit?

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Would the destruction of a human life cause the destruction of the soul? The spirit?

 

I don't think so. At least, not as the principle cause. The two are necessarily separate entities.

 

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Guest Angel C

How frequent and how recent?

 

 

I do think there is a process that a spirit goes through once they leave earth. I think out of respect, we mere humans, should not interfere with this process. I actually think that it could be detrimental to their journey. In some cases could keep them on earth.

 

Neither do I think all spirits become guides. You can't choose your guide.

 

I have not read this in a book, and I know it doesnt fit in with the time theory, but it is a very strong belief that I have.

 

Talking to the higher self, would be different Kai. But I dont think that is what we are talking about here.

 

None of us know all the answers, and probably never will, in this lifetime.

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Guest Dot
Neither do I think all spirits become guides. You can't choose your guide.

Of course they don't. But they might. As for choosing your guide maybe there's some sort of "meet and greet" thing going on in the spirit world before you enter your incarnation. Like, this will be your spirit guide(s) la di da, happy? Not happy? All good? Good! :lol:

 

None of us know all the answers, and probably never will, in this lifetime.

Definitely not! :P At any rate, we wouldn't be able to word or experience them - well, redundancy. :D There's only so much the human body can experience... :)

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Talking to the higher self, would be different Kai. But I dont think that is what we are talking about here.

I guess what I was trying to propose was maybe that is what we are talking about. Maybe after we die we integrate with the consciousness we call our higher selves, and that is that. Really I am just throwing ideas out there, alas there is no way to get evidence for these ideas.

 

I think out of respect, we mere humans, should not interfere with this process. I actually think that it could be detrimental to their journey. In some cases could keep them on earth.
That questions those statements ask are "what is the process?" and "How could a human interfere with it?"

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Guest Angel C
I guess what I was trying to propose was maybe that is what we are talking about. Maybe after we die we integrate with the consciousness we call our higher selves, and that is that. Really I am just throwing ideas out there, alas there is no way to get evidence for these ideas.

 

That questions those statements ask are "what is the process?" and "How could a human interfere with it?"

 

 

I was trying to find a near death experience that someone posted about, over a year ago. It was a link to a site of a man who had written a book. He had "died" for much longer than most near death experiences and what he described if I remember correctly was more of a journey.

 

Maybe the spirit is subject to time for a little while, and retains their personality. I dont know, I just get a strong feeling that we shouldnt try to innitiate communication, for at least for a few days.

 

I dont know what the process is, but near death experiences can give us some indication.

 

My concern is that a living person (especially one practiced in psychic abilities and manifestation) could interfere through strong intent and desire, through willing the person's spirit to them. That through a strong refusal to let go they could interfere with this journey.

 

I suppose I dont believe the journey stops the instant we leave earth. I dont know why I believe this, but I do.

 

 

Edit: I guess I see this differently because I dont see the spirit and the soul as being the exact same thing.

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I was trying to find a near death experience that someone posted about, over a year ago. It was a link to a site of a man who had written a book. He had "died" for much longer than most near death experiences and what he described if I remember correctly was more of a journey.
That's true, in most near death experiences I have heard of the people tend to retain and remember their personality. Near death experiences that I have heard about have elements of feeling overwhelming relief and joy, and an omniscient "life review." Maybe that is the journey?

 

Maybe the spirit is subject to time for a little while, and retains their personality. I dont know, I just get a strong feeling that we shouldnt try to innitiate communication, for at least for a few days.

 

I dont know what the process is, but near death experiences can give us some indication.

 

My concern is that a living person (especially one practiced in psychic abilities and manifestation) could interfere through strong intent and desire, through willing the person's spirit to them. That through a strong refusal to let go they could interfere with this journey.

 

I suppose I dont believe the journey stops the instant we leave earth. I dont know why I believe this, but I do.

It's just that when anyone dies, many people, channelers or not, miss them, and want to see them again, and cry, and think about their lost time with them, and are very sad. If something were able to interfere with a person's journey through the afterlife it would be 10 to 20 people feeling bad over you. I just can't imagine making contact with the person being more of a problem then that, if it were a problem at all. I think a reason not to communicate with the deceased shortly after they died would be because people are still emotional over the situation which could interfere with the message, not the deceased.

 

 

Edit: I guess I see this differently because I dont see the spirit and the soul as being the exact same thing.
What do you see them as?

 

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