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Noir

Observations of a former psycho - er psychic

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It's been far too long since I began looking toward different methods of cultivation and trends shared between cultures and philosophies of the past and present. I, like many of you, was brought to the world of psychic development from a good old search on google in 2006 after what many would consider a psychic experience in the western culture. Of course, that search led to a new area of understanding that I was initially hesitant of due to my scientific background and love of skepticism. After a period of time, much like others, even I began to perform reads almost on a daily basis and fully embrace psychic philosophy. As time passed, I began to notice somethings occurring to me as I began to integrate the psychic belief system into my field of experiences. Unfortunately, it didn't take long to realize that the beliefs I painstakingly adopted at that time were not only incomplete, but led to a variety of different issues in my development of the conscious mind.

 

A long time has passed since the experiences and even my previous login into the Universal Psychic Guild, the place where the world of psychic came alive for me all of those years ago. There's a lot I should explain and it is necessary to begin, so that the same mistakes are not made with people as they search on how to develop their conscious. Not only in a loving way, but in a way that doesn't shatter their conscious.

 

Psychics are not special. This is one aspect I even began to say back in the day, and it is a belief I still hold. What makes a psychic special? The assumed belief you can do something only a select few can do? Don't get trapped into such a contemptuous thought process! This aspect of psychic, rather some loose experiences of having some precognitive ability or psychokinetic ability, is something that has been extant in several different cultures for ages and have been recorded as such. Of course, we are reminded of references of "psychic" phenomenon in the bible, sufism, and even sikh. But, this development of consciousness has seen the largest body of research from the pillars of Buddhist countries and even Daoist countries. To dismiss the debate of what came first, there is a fine thread between both. There is a transformation of the mind. The transformation differs (with dao stressing cultivation of body leading to transformation of mind, while Buddhism stresses cultivation of mind leading to cultivation of body) with the skills that an individual acquires and the "stock" (or the summed experiences of the soul from reincarnations past) an individual has. But to say the least, you do have some development in these beliefs specifically because there is a written method and the practices are still alive. Somewhat.

 

The development of the mind, according to these two perspectives, is woefully absent from psychic philosophy for a variety of different reasons. Granted, much of what an indivdiual owes psychic abilities is derived from some Indian belief with the emphasis of chakra and siddhis, but that doesn't mean that the mind is fully being developed at all. Understand that while psychic philosophy has syncretically taken from different cultural belief systems in a sense of this Frankenstein-esque system, the Frankenstein-esque system can mangle the mind in a variety of different ways.

 

In a previous topic, I began to explain a tiny bit of that (which you can find at the following URL: http://forum.psychicguild.com/index.php?showtopic=8404&view=findpost&p=73547) in which there is a heavy amount of regurgitation of concepts that I even held dear at one point. But why? At the time I adopted the psychic philosophy, I was still depressed, my questions weren't answered, and if it was possible, my depression became worse and I was slowly starting to border on psychosis. In spite of that experience, it has taken a long period of time for me to understand exactly what was going on and how my thoughts do influence reality (either that or mental development leading to change of reality, same thing really). In the vain attempt to focus and concentrate so hard on one thing (or a few things), I began to realize, the descriptions and abilities of the psychic world were incomplete.

 

A common meditation even I will remember in psychic is to visualize. The larger visualization was to visualize a white light in your mind purifying itself. The sad and pathetic reality of such a meditation is simple. There is no visualization needed! As a product of proper meditation, an individual can see that white light in days! That famed white light is referenced in several different meditations as the first step of internal alchemy; the transformation of lead (lower thoughts, sexual essence) to gold (purity of mind, stilling the sexual essence to transform itself and heal the body). Such an aspect has been written about in ages and yet, it has to be visualized here. What is actually gained from doing such a thing?

 

Perhaps it is necessary to turn to some unique experiences as well as some historical traditions to note the proper vs. improper progress. I am reminded of a question from contemporary Zhong Lu Chan Dao Ji as a student asks about inner visualization:

 

Inner visualization...are used by some of the ancients...not all practitioners agree with this method. The concern is that the mind is like a monkey in motion and intention is a horse that never stops. The dread is the material world causing you to lose your will....he hopes to achieve only through visualization...this is only a child's game. The strange one fails to achieve wealth by sitting and dreaming of becoming wealthy, therefore how can visualization be useful. Like drawing a picture of bread, how can such a bread fill the stomach

 

From my experience, I have found a variety of damning effects on visualization. Does it throw the energetic body out of wack? Yes it does. The two channels of energy in the body are thrown, with the lighter, more fiery energy taking control due to the aspect of overfocus on the act visualized in itself. In brief periods, I haven't seen too much damage, but as time progressed, I have seen several people begin to report strange abnormalities in their body and patterns of body change. The methods led eventually to breaks in consciousness due in part to too much focus on the act of visualization itself. And when the mind breaks, it doesn't take much for temporary psychosis to set in.

 

I choose one aspect of this to point out, of course and such an aspect isn't distinct to just psychic philosophy. Me nor anyone else with such experience would never run across a Yoga instructor or a Qi Gong instructor that embraced visualization because it is a touchy subject. However, thinking practically for a moment and I realize that deep down, we want to learn to become better people in the development of consciousness and embrace positivity. Why would anyone do something that can run risk of causing a break in consciousness leading to temporary psychotic episodes?

 

What determines a better person in a western interpretation? Of course, the ability to give, imbue aspects of being happy and being positive are all signs that would reflect a person being better. From my experience, I didn't become better. In fact, I became worse; broken, depressed, psychotic, embracing the idea that if I do xyz this will go away. The sad truth about this is I had more progress by clearing my heart of such things than I ever did with psychic philosophy. Of course, such a western aspect of being better isn't relegated to the west. A frequent story I've been told is that you can meditate, and it still won't make you less of a jerk.

 

In our quest to become better people, truly better, we go through several hoops and things that aren't necessary. Better can so much simpler in fact! Give with your heart, be free and express what's in your heart. Be ready to experience both good and bad, because at its heart, those aspects are merely means of our mind to categorize our experiences in this world. It's amazing how much that would do rather than visualize a mantra of being happy.

 

However, that doesn't necessarily explain what's going on. Conscious development. Any THING deemed psychic, is conscious development. But it isn't the end all be all. There is a glorious world out there with people that can truly help you cultivate your conscious. The famed white light, becomes something you see in days or weeks. The further refining of the mind so it affects the body, well that too happens. The world that we read about in all of the famoous religious texts or philosophical texts is still practiced. Alive, and well. So, why do you think you need to go about it this way where you may more to lose?

 

I am not trying to sell some product in these words or incite some division between those who have experience such a thing versus those who have not. But I am trying to report some of my observations that I have endured and experienced in this time of being psychic and eventually not being psychic. The abilities don't stop; they are apart of your karmic stock. But the main difference is this. Instead of fumbling and keeping attached to some thing, person, or belief, your view of reality does change. And it isn't fake or full of condescending tone. It is bonafide progress that begins to transform you inside out.

 

Aren't you tired of being addicted for the read fix to know when to poop, or visualizing something to get rid of the big bad negative entity that your mind creates? Let's drop the facade. It's old, it stymies us. Let's return back to the way and embrace the true light of transformation of reality.

 

Be well

 

 

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I agree with this 100%

Recently I've noticed by adjusting the way I act in real life, it makes meditation a lot easier. I can sit there a lot longer, and without much visualization

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After a period of time, much like others, even I began to perform reads almost on a daily basis and fully embrace psychic philosophy. As time passed, I began to notice somethings occurring to me as I began to integrate the psychic belief system into my field of experiences. Unfortunately, it didn't take long to realize that the beliefs I painstakingly adopted at that time were not only incomplete, but led to a variety of different issues in my development of the conscious mind.

 

What do you mean by: “Psychic philosophy”? and “The psychic belief system”? What could these possibly be? Do you actually mean “New Age” or “Gnostic” or “Hindu” or some other commonly used category of philosophy/belief systems?

 

Since psychic ability, or “intuition” is just a function, are there similar “philosophies” and “belief systems” based on, say, chewing, or bending at the waist?

 

A long time has passed since the experiences and even my previous login into the Universal Psychic Guild, the place where the world of psychic came alive for me all of those years ago.

 

Again, what could “the world of psychic” possibly mean? Where is it?

 

Psychics are not special. This is one aspect I even began to say back in the day, and it is a belief I still hold. What makes a psychic special? The assumed belief you can do something only a select few can do? Don't get trapped into such a contemptuous thought process! This aspect of psychic, rather some loose experiences of having some precognitive ability or psychokinetic ability, is something that has been extant in several different cultures for ages and have been recorded as such.

 

Yes, just like sports. Everyone, pretty much, can run. Most can throw a ball. But not everyone does these at the Olympics.

 

The development of the mind, according to these two perspectives, is woefully absent from psychic philosophy for a variety of different reasons. Granted, much of what an indivdiual owes psychic abilities is derived from some Indian belief with the emphasis of chakra and siddhis, but that doesn't mean that the mind is fully being developed at all. Understand that while psychic philosophy has syncretically taken from different cultural belief systems in a sense of this Frankenstein-esque system, the Frankenstein-esque system can mangle the mind in a variety of different ways.

 

Seems here that you are really referring to “New Age” philosophy when you write “psychic philosophy”. If so, I agree that a lot of the “New Age” stuff is merely a mish-mashed, and often incomplete, appropriation, almost a “designer” appropriation from a range of more complete and older traditions and beliefs. This is, partly, what happens when materially-oriented westerners encounter and try to make businesses out of the ancient understandings of cultures with which they are not really familiar except through their own media.

 

In a previous topic, I began to explain a tiny bit of that (which you can find at the following URL: http://forum.psychicguild.com/index.php?showtopic=8404&view=findpost&p=73547) in which there is a heavy amount of regurgitation of concepts that I even held dear at one point. But why? At the time I adopted the psychic philosophy, I was still depressed, my questions weren't answered, and if it was possible, my depression became worse and I was slowly starting to border on psychosis. In spite of that experience, it has taken a long period of time for me to understand exactly what was going on and how my thoughts do influence reality (either that or mental development leading to change of reality, same thing really). In the vain attempt to focus and concentrate so hard on one thing (or a few things), I began to realize, the descriptions and abilities of the psychic world were incomplete.

 

The “psychic world” is just the same one you’ve always been in. You didn’t actually go to any other world. Seems like you played around with a few ideas and made assumptions about them.

 

A useful thing to do when encountering ideas, any ideas, is to seek to know where the ideas are actually from, and why do they exist.

 

A common meditation even I will remember in psychic is to visualize.

 

Again, what does “in psychic” mean? Where are you when you think you are “in” “psychic”?

 

Visualization is so common – it’s used every day in business plans, by artists, construction engineers, architects, and just about everyone.

 

 

From my experience, I have found a variety of damning effects on visualization. Does it throw the energetic body out of wack? Yes it does. The two channels of energy in the body are thrown, with the lighter, more fiery energy taking control due to the aspect of overfocus on the act visualized in itself. In brief periods, I haven't seen too much damage, but as time progressed, I have seen several people begin to report strange abnormalities in their body and patterns of body change. The methods led eventually to breaks in consciousness due in part to too much focus on the act of visualization itself. And when the mind breaks, it doesn't take much for temporary psychosis to set in.

 

I choose one aspect of this to point out, of course and such an aspect isn't distinct to just psychic philosophy. Me nor anyone else with such experience would never run across a Yoga instructor or a Qi Gong instructor that embraced visualization because it is a touchy subject. However, thinking practically for a moment and I realize that deep down, we want to learn to become better people in the development of consciousness and embrace positivity. Why would anyone do something that can run risk of causing a break in consciousness leading to temporary psychotic episodes?

 

Actually, people have had “psychotic episodes” over things as simple as washing their hands, or going outside. The problem isn’t in these “risks”, but in the disintegration of people’s general health and functionality via "developed" industrialized, polluted, medicated “living”.

 

When we are discussing bodily/mental skills, we should realize that not everyone who reads about, for example, swimming, will be able to jump into water and swim the English Channel. In fact, some will dive in straight away and hit rocks. Think of the pitfalls and pratfalls in an area of relatively common activity like driving a car. How many accidents result? A LOT. I once read that the two most common causes of blindness in a home are the toilet seat and the doormat. I can certainly believe that people who have trouble using such presumably benign items could also experience problems just plain “thinking about stuff”.

 

I do agree with your tone that our true development and health are not going to come from ideas and beliefs and services that are outside of our normal and intrinsic nature and functionality. Health is what causes healthy understanding, healthy action, and healthy feelings. Nobody can prop up illness and misunderstanding with delusions as a facsimile for health without expecting just more trouble.

 

- Sascha

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I never thought of alchemy as a metaphor for introspection and internal transformation. That really sticks with me. It's interesting because when you transform your inner lead into gold, your outer "world" will also transform in time from rags to riches. I don't mean monetarily, although incidentally that has come my way too.

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Guest angelina12

I never thought of alchemy as a metaphor for introspection and internal transformation. That really sticks with me. It's interesting because when you transform your inner lead into gold, your outer "world" will also transform in time from rags to riches. I don't mean monetarily, although incidentally that has come my way too.

 

Explain, but in less jargon :P

 

Sorry!

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Ok, Noir, are you saying that we need to be careful what we take from the New Age philosophy as Sascha has clarified, as it won't make you less depressed and psychics don't have any special skills? I agree. It's what I tried to say a few months back. A person with mental health issues who believes they're possessed or if they've in fact got schizophrenia or any other illness won't become well from visualisations, reading a book or being "cleansed".

 

Sascha - the New Age philosophy is in fact a mish mash of Eastern religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Native American culture/beliefs, aspects of Wiccan philosophy, paganism, tarot, astrology, psychic readings, self help books, the Secret (ew!) and The Law of Attraction (ew!) and probably thrown in with concepts from the like of Aleister Crowley and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn too, and Waite etc and the other Freemasons and people from other English similar orders. Yes, very correct.

Did people know that the popular Rider-Waite tarot cards were designed by a Freemason named Waite? This group is controversial, and people will have mixed views on them.

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I never thought of alchemy as a metaphor for introspection and internal transformation. That really sticks with me. It's interesting because when you transform your inner lead into gold, your outer "world" will also transform in time from rags to riches. I don't mean monetarily, although incidentally that has come my way too.

 

In a literal sense, the “alchemists” worked for the King. The King had a lot of land. A common element in the land was lead, and an uncommon element was gold. The alchemist's job was to take lead and make gold out of it for the King. They gave the lead to the people in water pipes and drinking vessels, who thus became stupified and gave the King all their gold.

 

Today the “alchemists” are just called “all chemists”. They still work with neurotoxic metals, but now they also use synthetic chemicals which the people know of more commonly as "food additives", "medicines", and "environmental pollution".

 

- Sascha

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What do you mean by: "Psychic philosophy"? and "The psychic belief system"? What could these possibly be? Do you actually mean "New Age" or "Gnostic" or "Hindu" or some other commonly used category of philosophy/belief systems?

 

No, I said what I meant. Fact of the matter is New Age in and of itself is a term used to describe alternative (different) belief systems that drastically skew away from commonly understood western orthodox religious belief systems of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity (including Protestant and Roman Catholic Christianity).

 

In that, the current practices, by the operationalized definition, would be New Age, because the term is used to describe a different set of beliefs. If we want to get truly technical, New Age is a happier word to use than the traditional etymology of the word Pagan, which also notes almost the exact same thing in that there is no negative cultural connotation thereof.

 

The "psychic world" is just the same one you've always been in. You didn't actually go to any other world. Seems like you played around with a few ideas and made assumptions about them.

 

Not necessarily at all. When an individual or a culture adopts something that is supposed to hone and aid them in development, there should be some changes. As it has been written over thousands of years. There is no assumption. Been there, lived there, walked there. There was no bettering of mind, there was no being protected or a sense of love as stressed by the psychic world or literature (yes I used the term again, see above for why).

 

Visualization is so common – it's used every day in business plans, by artists, construction engineers, architects, and just about everyone.

 

That, unfortunately is not visualization, that'd be inner vision. And while the reference has somewhat a bone to pick about both, there are circumstances in which they can be beneficial. But for the beginning stages, it isn't necessary. Tosses shen out of whack, leads to tai yang, burns essence, so on and so on and so on. If you'd rather a buddhist interpretation of that, same thing. Tosses prana out of whack leading to excess prana, which aggressively burns the root chakra, and so on and so on (if we love an Indian flavor to this).

 

Of course, there are both good and bad ways to do it. Point is, we've been doing the bad way and it hasn't really helped above people overly visualizing phenomenon not leading to progress but detriment.

 

But feel free to disagree

 

Actually, people have had "psychotic episodes" over things as simple as washing their hands, or going outside.

 

Gotta say, while my clinical experiences are limited to a few years, you're making a grand accusation. Now if that response is maybe paired with a similar action that caused some trauma previously, that wouldn't be a psychotic episode. That's PTSD. And while the connection between PTSD and psychosis/mood disorders are prevalent in several forms of literature, the entire premise of action => psychosis is short sighted.

 

I almost have to ask, what do you mean here?

 

The problem isn't in these "risks", but in the disintegration of people's general health and functionality via "developed" industrialized, polluted, medicated "living".

 

You mind if you pull up a source for that? I know a few of my teachers have some similar arguments, but stress that the reason is due to the mind not entering a state of relaxation and is "on" 24/7. Watching TV, for instance, isn't relaxing. You're just trading one activity for another. Nevertheless, I'd like to see a reference (or several) to what you describe.

 

When we are discussing bodily/mental skills, we should realize that not everyone who reads about, for example, swimming, will be able to jump into water and swim the English Channel. In fact, some will dive in straight away and hit rocks. Think of the pitfalls and pratfalls in an area of relatively common activity like driving a car. How many accidents result? A LOT. I once read that the two most common causes of blindness in a home are the toilet seat and the doormat. I can certainly believe that people who have trouble using such presumably benign items could also experience problems just plain "thinking about stuff".

 

Really want to read about that toilet one and the doormat one. Really want to read that

 

I do agree with your tone that our true development and health are not going to come from ideas and beliefs and services that are outside of our normal and intrinsic nature and functionality. Health is what causes healthy understanding, healthy action, and healthy feelings. Nobody can prop up illness and misunderstanding with delusions as a facsimile for health without expecting just more trouble.

 

That's a small part of it. Basically, the mind is a beautiful gem, and is considered one of nine sacred treasures in terms of spiritual progression. In many systems (Buddhist, Yang Shen Dao, and so on), it is all mind. Therefore, we should be extremely careful with any practice that cultivates the mind, just as it cultivates the body.

 

The history in and of itself speaks of several practitioners going down wrong paths especially in mental cultivation and creating constructs that have very little (nothing) to do with conscious development.

 

The unique aspect here about both Buddhist and Daoist schools is that each system has some sort of physical requirement that notes whether a person is advancing or not. My question is this:

 

Has anyone even begun to hit a tiny fragment of those barriers or has there only been coddling of the ego leading to false enlightenment where a person uses the I am in this category therefore I am special (the Bashars, the secret people, and the like).

 

That's only a fragment of what really happens when you really start to develop the conscious mind. - switching to Italics because apparently not too much quotes...oh IPB...you used to be so cool

 

I never thought of alchemy as a metaphor for introspection and internal transformation. That really sticks with me. It's interesting because when you transform your inner lead into gold, your outer "world" will also transform in time from rags to riches. I don't mean monetarily, although incidentally that has come my way too.

 

The jin dan has always been used in eastern culture to note introspection and internal transformation. At higher levels, one of my teachers did show me lead he turned to gold to note that he had progressed in his alchemical training to that point. But that wasn't the purpose of the training. Similar to yogis getting attracted to the Siddhis, that's not the intent of the meditation or the training. The training has really one purpose. Prepare the body for the final alchemy and escape reincarnation. Everything else is a secondary roadmap that notes progress...

 

At its earliest stages, mental cultivation leads to the white light where (depending on the method) the practitioner circulates the white light, the light is seen through the eyes, and further development occurs physically.

 

But of course that's just ONE method.

 

Ok, Noir, are you saying that we need to be careful what we take from the New Age philosophy as Sascha has clarified, as it won't make you less depressed and psychics don't have any special skills?

 

I think this answers the questions

 

I choose one aspect of this to point out, of course and such an aspect isn't distinct to just psychic philosophy. Me nor anyone else with such experience would never run across a Yoga instructor or a Qi Gong instructor that embraced visualization because it is a touchy subject. However, thinking practically for a moment and I realize that deep down, we want to learn to become better people in the development of consciousness and embrace positivity. Why would anyone do something that can run risk of causing a break in consciousness leading to temporary psychotic episodes?

 

What determines a better person in a western interpretation? Of course, the ability to give, imbue aspects of being happy and being positive are all signs that would reflect a person being better. From my experience, I didn't become better. In fact, I became worse; broken, depressed, psychotic, embracing the idea that if I do xyz this will go away. The sad truth about this is I had more progress by clearing my heart of such things than I ever did with psychic philosophy. Of course, such a western aspect of being better isn't relegated to the west. A frequent story I've been told is that you can meditate, and it still won't make you less of a jerk.

 

In our quest to become better people, truly better, we go through several hoops and things that aren't necessary. Better can so much simpler in fact! Give with your heart, be free and express what's in your heart. Be ready to experience both good and bad, because at its heart, those aspects are merely means of our mind to categorize our experiences in this world. It's amazing how much that would do rather than visualize a mantra of being happy.

 

However, that doesn't necessarily explain what's going on. Conscious development. Any THING deemed psychic, is conscious development. But it isn't the end all be all. There is a glorious world out there with people that can truly help you cultivate your conscious. The famed white light, becomes something you see in days or weeks. The further refining of the mind so it affects the body, well that too happens. The world that we read about in all of the famoous religious texts or philosophical texts is still practiced. Alive, and well. So, why do you think you need to go about it this way where you may more to lose?

 

It's more than just visualization. It's the entire system. And again, I really refrain from using New Age. See above

 

It's what I tried to say a few months back. A person with mental health issues who believes they're possessed or if they've in fact got schizophrenia or any other illness won't become well from visualisations, reading a book or being "cleans

 

One of my largest topics for my dissertation is the conceptualization of schizophrenia. And schizophrenia has a lot of different aspects. Explaining things from one interpretation, there are a lot of things that leads to a break in consciousness. PTSD link, dissociation with the experience leading to the mind rebelling, sometimes too much thought or neurosis in somethings, and even more insane aspects. As I think about clients who I've seen schizophrenic, there is a similar thread

 

I experience this -> I search for this -> I learn this psychic stuffs -> I think I am better when in fact I am getting worse

 

The main point here is that, mental cultivation, while grand, needs to be taken in a different direction. Because frankly, the system that deals with it (psychic) is horrible.

 

In a literal sense, the "alchemists" worked for the King. The King had a lot of land. A common element in the land was lead, and an uncommon element was gold. The alchemist's job was to take lead and make gold out of it for the King. They gave the lead to the people in water pipes and drinking vessels, who thus became stupified and gave the King all their gold

 

Only in the west, who somehow screwed the concept entirely. The same did not occur in other parts of the world. Jin dan (internal alchemy) was typically taught in several cultures to the noblemen so they have the resources to not reincarnate. In addition, they were taught to future heads of the lineage. The main thing is the role karma had in this. But that's another story.

 

Point is, the rule only applies to European belief. Not where alchemy really came from...

 

Hope that helped because I'm off to do some well needed training and meditations

 

Be well

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Point is, the rule only applies to European belief. Not where alchemy really came from...

 

Hope that helped because I'm off to do some well needed training and meditations

 

Be well

 

Aha~~ I had a feeling a lot of it came from Daoism :rolleyes:

 

I've been trying to find the connection for the past couple of months, I believe the fundamental is the same and there are ways to possibly merge the eastern and western methodology

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I had written:

 

"Actually, people have had “psychotic episodes” over things as simple as washing their hands, or going outside. The problem isn’t in these “risks”, but in the disintegration of people’s general health and functionality via "developed" industrialized, polluted, medicated “living”."

 

and you responded by writing:

You mind if you pull up a source for that? I know a few of my teachers have some similar arguments, but stress that the reason is due to the mind not entering a state of relaxation and is "on" 24/7. Watching TV, for instance, isn't relaxing. You're just trading one activity for another. Nevertheless, I'd like to see a reference (or several) to what you describe.

 

I list but a few easily accessible references below. Anyone could take a detailed look through the following for more information and verification regarding "the disintegration of people’s general health and functionality via 'developed' industrialized, polluted, medicated 'living'":

 

Vaccine Epidemic

by Habakus and Holland

 

Poisoned For Profit

by Philip & Alice Shabecoff

 

The Truth About Children's Health

by Robert Bernardini

 

Disconnect

by Debra Davis

 

Anatomy of an Epidemic

by Robert Whitaker

 

The Polluters

by Ross & Ampter

 

Our Stolen Future

by Colborn, Dumanoski, & Myers

 

 

- Sascha

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No, I said what I meant. Fact of the matter is New Age in and of itself is a term used to describe alternative (different) belief systems that drastically skew away from commonly understood western orthodox religious belief systems of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity (including Protestant and Roman Catholic Christianity).

 

In that, the current practices, by the operationalized definition, would be New Age, because the term is used to describe a different set of beliefs. If we want to get truly technical, New Age is a happier word to use than the traditional etymology of the word Pagan, which also notes almost the exact same thing in that there is no negative cultural connotation thereof.

 

So when you write "psychic philosophy", and "the psychic belief system", and "the world of psychic", you are saying that these phrases of yours actually mean "Pagan"?

 

Therein, do you mean that "psychics" are "Pagans", and that the phenomena that are commonly called "precognitive dreams" and "telepathic communications" are actually practices or expressions of "Paganism"?

 

- Sascha

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So when you write "psychic philosophy", and "the psychic belief system", and "the world of psychic", you are saying that these phrases of yours actually mean "Pagan"?

 

Therein, do you mean that "psychics" are "Pagans", and that the phenomena that are commonly called "precognitive dreams" and "telepathic communications" are actually practices or expressions of "Paganism"?

 

- Sascha

 

I'll bold somethings...because I sort of covered this

 

 

No, I said what I meant. Fact of the matter is New Age in and of itself is a term used to describe alternative (different) belief systems that drastically skew away from commonly understood western orthodox religious belief systems of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity (including Protestant and Roman Catholic Christianity).

 

In that, the current practices, by the operationalized definition, would be New Age, because the term is used to describe a different set of beliefs. If we want to get truly technical, New Age is a happier word to use than the traditional etymology of the word Pagan, which also notes almost the exact same thing in that there is no negative cultural connotation thereof.

 

And to clarify on the historical use of the word pagan, as we are aware, it is a term used after the death of Christ in Rome to signify the various beliefs systems the people had at the time while creating a sense of this is not something that should be practiced in Rome. As Rome became somewhat a pillar of the evolution of Western Christianity (save from well, Africa). Since the practices and beliefs were viewed negatively, Pagan took a connotation similar to that of maleficios, or evil. In this, the negative connotation of Paganism arose because at a point other faiths were practiced (polytheistic of course). But as the word evolved, there have been two underlying themes through the use of Pagan

 

1. It (Pagans) are polytheistic and evil

2. Pagans are not Christian

 

In this, both themes used to describe other people who were not Christian were used throughout the ages. For instance, slave trade, any form of eastward expansion, and so on and so on. Even to this day, the same themes are used interchangeably.

 

As the bolded portion indicates, New Age is also used in a similar light to describe practices that diverge from orthodox Western religion. The huge difference is that instead of having an evil connotation, the connotation is culturally acceptable in the English language (however, how others look at it is still viewed negatively due to several events; like the Nicean council for Christianity and verses found in the Koran and Torah).

 

In terms of psychic, as I said before, it too is a New Age belief (in terms of cultivation of mind). Are psychics Pagan? Not necessarily. You can be Christian and still psychic especially in the way things were framed throughout the discussion. In terms of cultivation and comparing between traditional methods of cultivation, it is definitely New Age; certainly not something many agree with. Primarily because psychic in and of itself is not a belief, it is a referential siddhi that has been written for generations to describe future sight that is extant in even western religious belief systems.

 

So to designate this

 

Pagan =/= psychic

Psychic == new age

 

"Actually, people have had “psychotic episodes” over things as simple as washing their hands, or going outside. The problem isn’t in these “risks”, but in the disintegration of people’s general health and functionality via "developed" industrialized, polluted, medicated “living”."

 

In your quote, you also neglected a few things:

 

Gotta say, while my clinical experiences are limited to a few years, you're making a grand accusation. Now if that response is maybe paired with a similar action that caused some trauma previously, that wouldn't be a psychotic episode. That's PTSD. And while the connection between PTSD and psychosis/mood disorders are prevalent in several forms of literature, the entire premise of action => psychosis is short sighted.

 

I almost have to ask, what do you mean here?

 

Of course admittedly I did misread the quote and segmented not realizing the construction of your logical argument. So that's a my bad here. But in general, I agree we are overmedicated. But I've not necessarily seen many drugs lead to a psychotic breakdown in modern times. Now if we're talking about methamphetamine use as a clinical aid in the 60s, oh I'd definitely agree...

 

Aha~~ I had a feeling a lot of it came from Daoism

 

I've been trying to find the connection for the past couple of months, I believe the fundamental is the same and there are ways to possibly merge the eastern and western methodology

 

It isn't all dao completely. It is and it isn't. Buddhism is also dao; in that dao is used to refer to way and road toward way. So in that, everything is dao, because everything is way. Now whether that way is somewhere in particular is another story

 

As far as the blending of both beliefs, I don't see that coming. The underlying philosophical views of reality are too fundamentally different for there to ever be a way to really prove too many concepts. Heaven forbid if someone finds a dan tian using medical equipment...

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So to designate this

 

Pagan =/= psychic

Psychic == new age

 

But, in your statements, you say new age == pagan, which would mean that, logically, you are saying that psychic == pagan. Thus, you are contradicting yourself with confused logic, especially in using the strictly equal ("==") designation.

 

I say psychic functioning is neither new age or pagan any more than our digestive functions or ocular vision are.

 

If psychic functioning is just another body/mind/environmental function, as is our response to electromagnetic fields, radiation, light, and so on, then it has nothing whatsoever to do with any belief system. These functions predate them all. When you refer to "psychic philosophy", I have to see this as an interpretation or construct that is yours personally. As a phrase, it makes about as much sense as saying "digestion philosophy" or "knee philosophy".

 

 

I agree we are overmedicated. But I've not necessarily seen many drugs lead to a psychotic breakdown in modern times. Now if we're talking about methamphetamine use as a clinical aid in the 60s, oh I'd definitely agree...

 

Actually, read the recent book "Anatomy of an Epidemic" to get an idea of the volume of studies showing that most "psychiatric" "medications" are almost certainly causing the very "diseases" they are prescribed for. This is because of both outright brain damage from some of these drugs ("chemical lobotomy") and also due to the homeostasis functions of the body, which will compensate in an opposite direction from a medication. One simple example is how taking stimulants makes people much more sleepy and dull-minded when they stop them. Their system has naturally compensated for the expansion of the capillaries in their brain (which is the main effect of the drug) by working to narrow these capillaries in response. The stimulants don't "cure" sleepiness or dull-mindedness at all. Rather, they cause the body to amplify these conditions. Take a look at someone who is trying to get off anti-psychotics. They become much more psychotic. Doctors will say that this is because the person needs medication, but really, the medication has simply provoked the opposite response in the body as in the above example of stimulants.

 

There are many examples of drugs leading "to a psychotic breakdown in modern times". Think of the debased mental functioning, including "breakdowns" of numerous drug addicts and alcoholics generally.

 

- Sascha

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I say psychic functioning is neither new age or pagan any more than our digestive functions or ocular vision are.

 

If psychic functioning is just another body/mind/environmental function, as is our response to electromagnetic fields, radiation, light, and so on, then it has nothing whatsoever to do with any belief system. These functions predate them all. When you refer to "psychic philosophy", I have to see this as an interpretation or construct that is yours personally. As a phrase, it makes about as much sense as saying "digestion philosophy" or "knee philosophy".

 

I agree Sascha, and I know I am not the only one here who believes that psychic ability is an inherent part of being ... (I was going to say "human", but I suspect that animals have this same ability) of being a sentient creature.

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But, in your statements, you say new age == pagan, which would mean that, logically, you are saying that psychic == pagan. Thus, you are contradicting yourself with confused logic, especially in using the strictly equal ("==") designation.

 

erh...

 

In terms of psychic, as I said before, it too is a New Age belief (in terms of cultivation of mind). Are psychics Pagan? Not necessarily. You can be Christian and still psychic especially in the way things were framed throughout the discussion. In terms of cultivation and comparing between traditional methods of cultivation, it is definitely New Age; certainly not something many agree with. Primarily because psychic in and of itself is not a belief, it is a referential siddhi that has been written for generations to describe future sight that is extant in even western religious belief systems.

 

No, I said what I meant. Fact of the matter is New Age in and of itself is a term used to describe alternative (different) belief systems that drastically skew away from commonly understood western orthodox religious belief systems of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity (including Protestant and Roman Catholic Christianity).

 

In that, the current practices, by the operationalized definition, would be New Age, because the term is used to describe a different set of beliefs. If we want to get truly technical, New Age is a happier word to use than the traditional etymology of the word Pagan, which also notes almost the exact same thing in that there is no negative cultural connotation thereof.

 

One more

 

1. It (Pagans) are polytheistic and evil

2. Pagans are not Christian

 

Pagan =/= psychic

Psychic == new age

 

And to add to that third quote, pagan isn't psychic especially in the modern context because again historically Pagan beliefs carry a pretty negative connotation especially in mainstream appeal in spite of the increase in pagan beliefs that occurred post vietnam and even before the turn of the millennium. In that, when I said new age == pagan, it is especially considering:

 

In that, the current practices, by the operationalized definition, would be New Age, because the term is used to describe a different set of beliefs. If we want to get truly technical, New Age is a happier word to use than the traditional etymology of the word Pagan, which also notes almost the exact same thing in that there is no negative cultural connotation thereof.

 

Recall, I am using pagan in the sense that it drastically skews itself from orthodox western religion. New Age also is seen in that sense in the west to include beliefs that are not apart of western monotheistic beliefs. Actually take a look at the history of both words, it's quite fascinating

 

So can we finally put that matter to bed? That's what she said...or...he said...

 

I say psychic functioning is neither new age or pagan any more than our digestive functions or ocular vision are.

 

Who said they were? Actually I'm pretty sure I indicated:

 

Psychics are not special. This is one aspect I even began to say back in the day, and it is a belief I still hold. What makes a psychic special? The assumed belief you can do something only a select few can do? Don't get trapped into such a contemptuous thought process! This aspect of psychic, rather some loose experiences of having some precognitive ability or psychokinetic ability, is something that has been extant in several different cultures for ages and have been recorded as such. Of course, we are reminded of references of "psychic" phenomenon in the bible, sufism, and even sikh. But, this development of consciousness has seen the largest body of research from the pillars of Buddhist countries and even Daoist countries. To dismiss the debate of what came first, there is a fine thread between both. There is a transformation of the mind. The transformation differs (with dao stressing cultivation of body leading to transformation of mind, while Buddhism stresses cultivation of mind leading to cultivation of body) with the skills that an individual acquires and the "stock" (or the summed experiences of the soul from reincarnations past) an individual has. But to say the least, you do have some development in these beliefs specifically because there is a written method and the practices are still alive. Somewhat.

 

And that answers that

 

If psychic functioning is just another body/mind/environmental function, as is our response to electromagnetic fields, radiation, light, and so on, then it has nothing whatsoever to do with any belief system.

 

May wanna dig up on your anthropology. I'd start with Christianity, work your way up to the Romani, and then probably settle with Indian history. Too much focus on things that are really...inconsequential..

 

These functions predate them all. When you refer to "psychic philosophy", I have to see this as an interpretation or construct that is yours personally.

 

Fair enough. That's your opinion on things. Which is fine. We all have our opinions on things and definitely fair to disagree. That's what makes humans diverse. And while we disagree that's cool =)

 

I'll probably be running out of quotes - curse you IPB

 

Actually, read the recent book "Anatomy of an Epidemic" to get an idea of the volume of studies showing that most "psychiatric" "medications" are almost certainly causing the very "diseases" they are prescribed for. This is because of both outright brain damage from some of these drugs ("chemical lobotomy") and also due to the homeostasis functions of the body, which will compensate in an opposite direction from a medication.

 

In part...there's a lot more to it. I mean I have the book as well. But take a pharm course to understand the impacts of the medication. I mean I don't disagree, I mean heck I was a month away from med school, but I also wouldn't generalize it so easily. It's far more complex than that in spite of it leading to altering of the biochemistry and structure of the brain.

 

But again, the brain is extremely neuroplastic. Under proper conditions, it can heal itself

 

One simple example is how taking stimulants makes people much more sleepy and dull-minded when they stop them. Their system has naturally compensated for the expansion of the capillaries in their brain (which is the main effect of the drug) by working to narrow these capillaries in response. The stimulants don't "cure" sleepiness or dull-mindedness at all. Rather, they cause the body to amplify these conditions.

 

Again, its a bit too simple and people have different physiologies. Generally, it isn't a one size fit all approach

 

Take a look at someone who is trying to get off anti-psychotics. They become much more psychotic. Doctors will say that this is because the person needs medication, but really, the medication has simply provoked the opposite response in the body as in the above example of stimulants.

 

Again, really too simple here. People are diverse and it depends on a holistic image. Not everyone responds the same to medicine. But I do agree that the mind is something awkward and beautiful

 

There are many examples of drugs leading "to a psychotic breakdown in modern times". Think of the debased mental functioning, including "breakdowns" of numerous drug addicts and alcoholics generally.

 

I wouldn't say it is the drug...attachment to the drug...oh big time

 

I agree Sascha, and I know I am not the only one here who believes that psychic ability is an inherent part of being ... (I was going to say "human", but I suspect that animals have this same ability) of being a sentient creature.

 

I think we all agree with that, but in terms of mental cultivation, it is bare minimum. If actually that

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But, in your statements, you say new age == pagan, which would mean that, logically, you are saying that psychic == pagan. Thus, you are contradicting yourself with confused logic, especially in using the strictly equal ("==") designation.

 

erh...

 

In terms of psychic, as I said before, it too is a New Age belief (in terms of cultivation of mind). Are psychics Pagan? Not necessarily. You can be Christian and still psychic especially in the way things were framed throughout the discussion. In terms of cultivation and comparing between traditional methods of cultivation, it is definitely New Age; certainly not something many agree with. Primarily because psychic in and of itself is not a belief, it is a referential siddhi that has been written for generations to describe future sight that is extant in even western religious belief systems.

 

No, I said what I meant. Fact of the matter is New Age in and of itself is a term used to describe alternative (different) belief systems that drastically skew away from commonly understood western orthodox religious belief systems of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity (including Protestant and Roman Catholic Christianity).

 

In that, the current practices, by the operationalized definition, would be New Age, because the term is used to describe a different set of beliefs. If we want to get truly technical, New Age is a happier word to use than the traditional etymology of the word Pagan, which also notes almost the exact same thing in that there is no negative cultural connotation thereof.

 

One more

 

1. It (Pagans) are polytheistic and evil

2. Pagans are not Christian

 

Pagan =/= psychic

Psychic == new age

 

And to add to that third quote, pagan isn't psychic especially in the modern context because again historically Pagan beliefs carry a pretty negative connotation especially in mainstream appeal in spite of the increase in pagan beliefs that occurred post vietnam and even before the turn of the millennium. In that, when I said new age == pagan, it is especially considering:

 

In that, the current practices, by the operationalized definition, would be New Age, because the term is used to describe a different set of beliefs. If we want to get truly technical, New Age is a happier word to use than the traditional etymology of the word Pagan, which also notes almost the exact same thing in that there is no negative cultural connotation thereof.

 

Recall, I am using pagan in the sense that it drastically skews itself from orthodox western religion. New Age also is seen in that sense in the west to include beliefs that are not apart of western monotheistic beliefs. Actually take a look at the history of both words, it's quite fascinating

 

So can we finally put that matter to bed? That's what she said...or...he said...

 

I say psychic functioning is neither new age or pagan any more than our digestive functions or ocular vision are.

 

Who said they were? Actually I'm pretty sure I indicated:

 

Psychics are not special. This is one aspect I even began to say back in the day, and it is a belief I still hold. What makes a psychic special? The assumed belief you can do something only a select few can do? Don't get trapped into such a contemptuous thought process! This aspect of psychic, rather some loose experiences of having some precognitive ability or psychokinetic ability, is something that has been extant in several different cultures for ages and have been recorded as such. Of course, we are reminded of references of "psychic" phenomenon in the bible, sufism, and even sikh. But, this development of consciousness has seen the largest body of research from the pillars of Buddhist countries and even Daoist countries. To dismiss the debate of what came first, there is a fine thread between both. There is a transformation of the mind. The transformation differs (with dao stressing cultivation of body leading to transformation of mind, while Buddhism stresses cultivation of mind leading to cultivation of body) with the skills that an individual acquires and the "stock" (or the summed experiences of the soul from reincarnations past) an individual has. But to say the least, you do have some development in these beliefs specifically because there is a written method and the practices are still alive. Somewhat.

 

And that answers that

 

If psychic functioning is just another body/mind/environmental function, as is our response to electromagnetic fields, radiation, light, and so on, then it has nothing whatsoever to do with any belief system.

 

May wanna dig up on your anthropology. I'd start with Christianity, work your way up to the Romani, and then probably settle with Indian history. Too much focus on things that are really...inconsequential..

 

These functions predate them all. When you refer to "psychic philosophy", I have to see this as an interpretation or construct that is yours personally.

 

Fair enough. That's your opinion on things. Which is fine. We all have our opinions on things and definitely fair to disagree. That's what makes humans diverse. And while we disagree that's cool =)

 

I'll probably be running out of quotes - curse you IPB

 

Actually, read the recent book "Anatomy of an Epidemic" to get an idea of the volume of studies showing that most "psychiatric" "medications" are almost certainly causing the very "diseases" they are prescribed for. This is because of both outright brain damage from some of these drugs ("chemical lobotomy") and also due to the homeostasis functions of the body, which will compensate in an opposite direction from a medication.

 

In part...there's a lot more to it. I mean I have the book as well. But take a pharm course to understand the impacts of the medication. I mean I don't disagree, I mean heck I was a month away from med school, but I also wouldn't generalize it so easily. It's far more complex than that in spite of it leading to altering of the biochemistry and structure of the brain.

 

But again, the brain is extremely neuroplastic. Under proper conditions, it can heal itself

 

One simple example is how taking stimulants makes people much more sleepy and dull-minded when they stop them. Their system has naturally compensated for the expansion of the capillaries in their brain (which is the main effect of the drug) by working to narrow these capillaries in response. The stimulants don't "cure" sleepiness or dull-mindedness at all. Rather, they cause the body to amplify these conditions.

 

Again, its a bit too simple and people have different physiologies. Generally, it isn't a one size fit all approach

 

Take a look at someone who is trying to get off anti-psychotics. They become much more psychotic. Doctors will say that this is because the person needs medication, but really, the medication has simply provoked the opposite response in the body as in the above example of stimulants.

 

Again, really too simple here. People are diverse and it depends on a holistic image. Not everyone responds the same to medicine. But I do agree that the mind is something awkward and beautiful

 

There are many examples of drugs leading "to a psychotic breakdown in modern times". Think of the debased mental functioning, including "breakdowns" of numerous drug addicts and alcoholics generally.

 

I wouldn't say it is the drug...attachment to the drug...oh big time

 

I agree Sascha, and I know I am not the only one here who believes that psychic ability is an inherent part of being ... (I was going to say "human", but I suspect that animals have this same ability) of being a sentient creature.

 

I think we all agree with that, but in terms of mental cultivation, it is bare minimum. If actually that

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Recall, I am using pagan in the sense that it drastically skews itself from orthodox western religion. New Age also is seen in that sense in the west to include beliefs that are not apart of western monotheistic beliefs. Actually take a look at the history of both words, it's quite fascinating

 

"Orthodox western religion" is something relatively quite recent compared to what has been considered "pagan" in a derogatory sense. Western religion didn't originate and doesn't have a monopoly on monotheism either. There are religious traditions that have been called "Pagan" that aren't necessarily Pantheistic. "Pagan" religions (bear in mind that Taoism and Hinduism have been called this) did not actively skew themselves from "orthodox western religion". Rather, it was the other way around, and largely for what we would today see as purely political reasons.

 

In reality, there is only truth and non-truth in terms of religious thought. When organized for socio-political motivations, neither religion & philosophy nor science end up dealing with plain truth.

 

But I hadn't ever seen psychic phenomena and functioning as a religious or philosophical issue. Certainly, not any more than I would see the phenomena and functioning of digestion or hearing as such.

 

But again, the brain is extremely neuroplastic. Under proper conditions, it can heal itself

 

The proper conditions would not, I am sure, include being poisoned with hormone-interrupting chemicals and neurotoxins like fluoride and mercury (which are in many psychiatric - and other - medications).

 

Again, its a bit too simple and people have different physiologies. Generally, it isn't a one size fit all approach

 

Human beings are very similar to each other in terms of genetics and functionality. In fact, primates in general are genetically very similar to each other. Drugs that alter hormone levels generally affect all the same, and the differences in things like individual metabolism, fat ratio, and such, are nowhere near significant enough for us to say that there would be a "different' effect from the same substance. If they did, such a medication could not be proven effective or even sold, because there would be no telling what it might do.

 

Lead, for example, is toxic to all of us. Nobody has a different enough physiology for it not to affect us, and the effects would be more similar than different. Drugs are designed to do something fairly specific, and their effects are far more similar from patient to patient than they are different.

 

If you read the studies cited in 'Anatomy of an Epidemic", it really does appear that the general effect of psychiatric drugs has been to actually cause and deepen the very conditions for which they had been prescribed.

 

- Sascha

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I'll tell ya what

I don't want this topic to tangent into some argument re: opinions concerning medicine and the history of religion (and etymology of words used by religion). If you want to discuss that, PM me. That's not the point of the discussion. More than enough time has been taken into that and not at the heart of the discussion.

 

A system, no matter what label, can do some harm to the psyche of the individual and not so much good.

 

You can visualize xyz, wave every imaginary pink light or something around you, meditate on some chakra point, and that doesn't make you a better person. Nor is it liberating for the mind or the heart. The point is, there is better. There are nobler ways for us to become better people, to transform the mind, see the light, and see the referential focus of being "psychic" as nothing more than a mere trap of an effect of the ultimate goal and not the goal in and of itself.

 

That is the point. Feel free to disagree with that because that is the topic

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A system, no matter what label, can do some harm to the psyche of the individual and not so much good.

 

Certainly. But I had not seen anyone before you labeling "psychic" as a system. I have mainly seen psychic phenomena and functioning simply as a phenomena and functioning, much as this is taken by perceptual science and the other aspects of science which study biological functions - the kind of thing that has been and is studied experimentally by people like Russel Targ, Dean Radin, and others, and is currently studied academically, such as at:

 

http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/clinical/departments/psychiatry/sections/cspp/dops/home-page

 

So although many systems, religious, philosophical, or otherwise, may make mention of their own approach to and opinions about psychic phenomena and functioning, the idea of this functioning as being part of or especially as coming from any system seems completely backwards to me.

 

You can visualize xyz, wave every imaginary pink light or something around you, meditate on some chakra point, and that doesn't make you a better person. Nor is it liberating for the mind or the heart. The point is, there is better. There are nobler ways for us to become better people, to transform the mind, see the light, and see the referential focus of being "psychic" as nothing more than a mere trap of an effect of the ultimate goal and not the goal in and of itself.

 

Agreed.

 

Personally, I see health (among beings and the total environment, including the transfer of energy and information therein) as the deciding factor in whether or not we experience healthy functioning, actions, understanding and healthy relationships. Very little that is going on today can, or is even designed to, produce actual health.

 

- Sascha

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Guest angelina12

Like i said if you want to talk about that PM me...that's not the topic

 

 

Lighten up, have some fun! Dance to some cheesy pop!

 

Not everyone is going to agree on every day of the week!

And maybe the topic has reached its zenith....and has too many big words, when a simple answer (which you gave above) would've done.

 

Peace and enjoy!

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Lighten up, have some fun! Dance to some cheesy pop!

 

Not everyone is going to agree on every day of the week!

And maybe the topic has reached its zenith....and has too many big words, when a simple answer (which you gave above) would've done.

 

Peace and enjoy!

 

as I said before

it's not the point of the topic. I never indicated anyone could or would disagree. In fact, I prefer it. But the main thing...

you know

You can visualize xyz, wave every imaginary pink light or something around you, meditate on some chakra point, and that doesn't make you a better person. Nor is it liberating for the mind or the heart. The point is, there is better. There are nobler ways for us to become better people, to transform the mind, see the light, and see the referential focus of being "psychic" as nothing more than a mere trap of an effect of the ultimate goal and not the goal in and of itself.

 

That is the point. Feel free to disagree with that because that is the topic

 

It's not a point of being light. But if it's something I've commented on initially, there's absolutely no reason for me to say something I've already said. It's nothing to lighten up of actually. Granted one sentence can be misconstrued because it doesn't include a light or positive phrase. But there was no negativity behind it. Actually if anything it was absence of any intent but a simple reminder.

 

So, with respect, let's stay on topic regarding methods to bring cultivation of mind without the insipid side effects and making you a better person that has been witnessed in several different western and eastern religions throughout time...

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Guest angelina12

Haha, ok, thanks, no offence, just wanting you to view things with a little humour.

 

I have no interest in the topic anymore, I'll be honest and say it's too complicated for me at this stage with so much reading, so it's all good - proceed!

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I'll tell ya what

I don't want this topic to tangent into some argument re: opinions concerning medicine and the history of religion (and etymology of words used by religion). If you want to discuss that, PM me. That's not the point of the discussion. More than enough time has been taken into that and not at the heart of the discussion.

 

A system, no matter what label, can do some harm to the psyche of the individual and not so much good.

 

You can visualize xyz, wave every imaginary pink light or something around you, meditate on some chakra point, and that doesn't make you a better person. Nor is it liberating for the mind or the heart. The point is, there is better. There are nobler ways for us to become better people, to transform the mind, see the light, and see the referential focus of being "psychic" as nothing more than a mere trap of an effect of the ultimate goal and not the goal in and of itself.

 

That is the point. Feel free to disagree with that because that is the topic

And I believe the fundamental Daoism idealogy is such that as long as you learn the dao and de, and act the same way. You will be awakening you will be filled with the yang in your dan tian, and throughout your body and beyond.

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